Summertime and the livin’ is sweaty! Let’s talk about surviving and possibly even thriving during the hottest, sunniest, buggiest time of year.
Summer is the time of year when we’re all supposed to be footloose and fancy-free, cavorting in the sunshine and enjoying all kinds of outdoor social activities. But for some of us, summer is about making it through three or so months of being extremely sweaty, having to decide between clothing that’s functional or stylish, and feeling immense pressure to be social. No matter what your feelings are about summertime, this episode is for you because we’re sharing the things and strategies that help us get the most out of this season.
This episode was produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas Nguyen. Our logo was designed by Amber Seger (@rocketorca). Our theme music is by Tiny Music. MJ Brodie transcribed this episode. Follow us on Twitter @OhILikeThatPod.
Things we talked about:
Sally: Welcome to Oh I Like That, a podcast about things we like and occasionally things we don't. I'm Rachel Wilkerson Miller.
Sally: And I'm Sally Tamarkin. Good afternoon, Rachel.
Rachel: Good afternoon, Sally, and happy Monday to you.
Sally: Happy Monday to you, Rachel. What is the vibe? Let's just get right into the vibe check.
Rachel: Okay. I'd say the vibe is Olympics, because I am both editing content about the Olympics and have been watching the Olympics. Specifically skateboarding, more specifically women's skateboarding, which I watched last night and then finished up this morning because it was the final, I don't know, 30 minutes of the medal event. So if you haven't watched it, I highly recommend it. It is so cool. The people competing range in age from 13 to 34 and they are all rad, but the 13 year olds especially are really rad. But they're all so cool.
Sally: Yeah.
Rachel: Yeah, it was great.
Sally: That is so cool. I didn't really realize that skateboarding was an Olympic sport.
Rachel: It wasn't, this is the first year for it.
Sally: Oh, okay. That's really cool. This is also, I'm realizing, the first year, or the first Olympics that I'm not, not of my entire life, but of my adult journalism career that I'm not working at a place that is covering the Olympics in some way. So I'm super tuned out of what's going on besides what I see on Twitter. So it's cool to hear that it's fun and exciting.
Rachel: This is the first year I've tuned in actually. And I'm kind of making the choice to do that, specifically just the queer athletes, that's what I'm tuning in for. So I'm pulling up my little reference sheet of who's competing on what teams and trying to watch those things, which is incredibly difficult because NBC does not seem to want anyone to watch these Olympics despite paying millions of dollars for the rights for them. So it's been very hard to find stuff. Particularly when it's live, but also even after the fact, you can watch five hours of a thing and not quite see the thing you thought you were going to see, and it seems there's a better way. But when you can find it, it's pretty fun.
Sally: One thing I will say about TV on the internet is that it's not very easy to watch events. Sports events, world events. This happened to me, because we don't have cable. We only have, you know, TV through the internet. And everything from presidential debates to voting returns, to sports events, World Cup stuff. For some reason it's much more difficult than it should be to find things to watch that you're trying to... like, specific things.
Rachel: I agree. I will say though, it's also difficult for people with cable because I was texting with my mom and she couldn't find it either. Because the thing that we were watching, the men's skateboarding was airing on USA network, which she wouldn't have known or thought to look there because I guess it's an NBC affiliate, but who would think that? So that didn't help, but then actually it's fairly easy to watch online once you figure it out. It's just that it'll be like -- sorry, this is kind of ridiculous, but it'll be like, you'll be on NBColympics.com and there'll be four boxes that'll be like, "Live! Stream now! Olympic events!" And it won't tell you what the events are. Three of them will say "Olympic events" and then one will be like "men's swimming." So you have to click into each of the other three to be like okay, this is this sport, this is this sport. And it's like, this could be avoided if you just told us what the event was before we clicked into it. So it's a lot of that and just sort of bad user interface with tiny fonts that it's like, okay, did anyone try to use this? All of the stuff is here, but it's not really presented in a way that makes it easy. You have to just go through a lot to find the stuff you want, which is really ridiculous. But I don't know. And then they were like, "It's all on Peacock streaming." It's not all on Peacock streaming.
Sally: That's a lie.
Rachel: Don't fall for that. So yeah, the Olympics are problematic, let's be real, but I'm enjoying finding queer athletes to root for and learning about women's skateboarding.
Sally: That sounds really fun. And I think maybe the attitude about making it available for people to watch is sort of like, look. We pulled off the Olympics, which is logistically incredibly difficult.
Rachel: That's true.
Sally: The rest of it is on you. You all noncompeting people can figure out how to watch it, which might be fair.
Rachel: Right. Yeah. All right, well that's my vibe. How's your vibe?
Sally: My vibe is I'm flying high off a real fun weekend, which you know firsthand.
Rachel: I do. I can't believe we didn't lead with this. Yeah. It was a great weekend. I'm sitting over here talking about the Olympics like a bozo when there's something more important that happened.
Sally: Well, the Olympics is pretty important, but the Olympics of friendship also happened because we got to hang out in real life.
Rachel: In person!
Sally: In person, three dimensional hangout, you and your girlfriend, me and my partner, and man, it was fun.
Rachel: It was really good.
Sally: It's the first time we've seen each other since long before the pandemic, right?
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: Because I moved to Philly. I don't think we've hung out -- oh no, we've hung out, we've had drinks here or there when I'd come into New York. But we had some real QT this weekend, and man, it was just so good and so fun. And I also met a couple of friends I know from the internet for the first time in real life, and they were great. And it was just one of those weekends where I feel like my cup runneth over and I'm starting the week with a full cup, which is incredible.
Rachel: Yeah, it was great. Every time I get to see people, I'm just like, man, I forgot how good this was. Like, this is wonderful. So, it was so fun and we got so lucky with the weather, some of the nicest weather we've had in a month, maybe more, in New York. We could actually be outside without melting, and it was just so easy and so much fun and so nourishing.
Sally: So nourishing. And I always have enjoyed spending time with my friends, but not being able to for so long really makes you appreciate how special it is to get to. So, yeah, it was just, it was great. So my vibe is like, I'm flying high, starting the week out on a high note. We had a classic summer weekend, and that's just a great segue to what we're going to talk about in this episode, which is not just summertime, but how to have a great summer and enjoy summertime even if you hate the season. This was actually inspired by a true story of me reading an article you wrote for Vice, which we will link to in the show notes. And these are tips that you put together from a person of hating summer experience perspective, of how to have a great summer if you hate summer. And I went into it with high expectations as I always do when I read anything you write, but I didn't feel like the intended audience because I don't identify as someone who hates summer. However, I identify as someone who is very realistic about all of the terrible garbage things that summer has to offer. And so any tips for mitigating that stuff, I'm very open to. So we decided to talk about that, talk about summer tips and hacks and stuff.
Rachel: Yeah, definitely, because I think there's stuff that I didn't touch on in the article that is just maybe good advice regardless of how you feel about summer and it's like how to have a better summer. Plus, you have lots of tips of your own. So I think, really, summer is an extreme time even if you like it, and there's things you can do to kind of sand off the edges of those extremes and make it feel as lovely and special as we've been sold through movies and things like that over the years.
Sally: It's true that summer is much like finding love and making money and easy career success. Summers as an uncomplicatedly fun thing are like a cultural myth,
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely.
Sally: And I think we all have to admit that--
Rachel: Completely.
Sally: --and just be really honest about what summer is really like. So, can we start out before we get into it with just kind of our top-line thoughts about dealing with summer, and whether 'dealing' to you is getting through it grudgingly or enjoying it and having a great time during it?
Rachel: Yeah, I think from my... so for the past, I don't know, four years it's been about getting through it. And so, I still go into it thinking that and approaching it that way. But it gets better for me every year because I've kind of cracked it and I feel like I think of it as getting through it, but it's more about enjoying it now than it was before. But I'm not totally confident every year. I'm like, "Oh, this is going to be the summer where I just, ugh. It's going to be awful." So I'm in the middle right now. I don't think I'm ever going to love summer, but I feel like I can manage summer now with the right level of planning and a strategic approach.
Sally: Yeah, I think that is very much connected to my top-line thing about summer, which is that you get tricked into thinking that summer is great because when you're a kid, it's when you don't have to go to school. And so, as for me, that I did associate with uncomplicated fun, good times. But the thing is if as an adult, you're not in school and you don't have a job connected to the academic year in a traditional sense, summer is just the same as everything else but a lot hotter and a lot more humid. Depending on where you live -- we're in the Northeast where things get really hot and really humid. And so the trick, I now realize, is basically doing some prep to make some of the most uncomfortable aspects of summer less uncomfortable. And then also knowing that it's just going to be a period of your life where you're going to get very sweaty and have a lot of bug bites. And some people deal with physical discomfort really well. I basically... if the temperature is plus or minus five degrees of my ideal, I'm in a pretty bad mood and I'm pretty distracted and it takes a lot of work for me to be able to deal with those micro-changes. But I think we're going to talk about a bunch of different things that are preparing for and getting through those micro-changes.
Rachel: Yeah. And maybe even enjoying yourself a little bit.
Sally: Hell yeah.
Rachel: So we're going to break this up and talk about some of the most vexing, to us, aspects of summer and kind of go through how we deal with those things, different solutions that we've come up with, products we have to recommend, little life hacks, that kinda thing. So, let's start with the first one which you've already recommended a couple of times, and that is heat and humidity, which I think we can all agree is awful and definitely needs a strategy for managing it.
Sally: Yeah. Heat and humidity. What is there to say? What a terrible combination.
Rachel: I know. It is so bad and it's... part of me is like I shouldn't complain because I lived in Houston for four years and I had never experienced humidity like the humidity in Houston. The first time I went there was August I think, or maybe June, and I got off the plane and it was like being punched in the face, it was otherworldly humidity. So it was really bad. But I also have to say, the Northeast humidity is also really fucking bad. Houston is worse and it's also much hotter but it is also bad here and really unpleasant. And just because it's worse other places doesn't mean I am just having a great time here.
Sally: Yeah, the other thing is I feel like you acclimate to the climate you live in. So I think if you're living in the Northeast, you're not going to walk outside on a really humid day and be like, "At least it's not Houston." I mean, I guess you can, but that doesn't bring actual relief.
Rachel: No relief.
Sally: And I think also, depending on where you live, your lifestyle is really impacted by the heat and humidity, and I will say waiting for the subway, being on the subway platform in the summer--
Rachel: Hell.
Sally: It's pretty bad. And I've never lived in Houston, but I imagine that you're driving a car.
Rachel: You're driving everywhere. Yeah, it's completely different.
Sally: Yeah. So a lot of it, I think, also just has to do with lifestyle. And when we moved to Philly, I was like, "Okay. Well, how different can it be from Brooklyn? It's the same weather, right?" But actually, I think it's hotter and more humid here somehow. It feels meaningfully swampier, and I guess at a certain point for me, with a combination of heat and humidity, there's just nothing for it. I'm just not going to be spending time outdoors at a certain point, and I think my threshold is a lot lower than it is for other people. I think other people can deal with the discomfort of heat and humidity much better than I. And a past version, Sally 1.0 would have tried to make it work, but Sally 2.0 is like, "It's not going to work to be outside when it's 95 degrees, but it feels like 104 and it's super humid, so we're not going to the park today." So I think all that is to say, know what you're up against, use a weather app -- or if you're like me, you might have five weather apps and you triangulate between them.
Rachel: That's where I am too. I have two; my girlfriend has one. We're constantly referencing to see who says what, who's more accurate, but the weather app is one of my most used apps right now. Both because of rain, but also I need to know what's coming, I need to know what the rest of this week is going to be like, and temperature and heat and humidity are way more important to me than sun or rain ultimately. Like yeah, it's nice to know if it's going to be pouring, I'm not going to plan a rooftop hang. But if it's going to be 88 feels like 97, I'm also not going to plan a rooftop hang. No one should be out in this. At least I don't want to be out in it.
Sally: No, 100%. And the apps that tell you the real feel and the real feel in the shade, give me all those details. I just want as much data as I can have. In every season, I think about how I become a weather expert for that season. In winter, you know the difference between 22 degrees and 28 degrees. In the same way in the summer, the difference between 85 and 88. You just... you come to know that if you spend a lot of time looking at weather apps and thinking about it. And I feel like it's kind of like an advanced life skill that you can really hone.
Rachel: Totally.
Sally: And paying attention to that stuff actually has made summer just better for me. Knowing when to do certain things, when during the day -- early in the morning or later in the evening? Or just looking at my app and being like, "Oh, I'm not going outside today."
Rachel: Yeah. I also think it's helpful to look at the app when the weather is nice so you can kind of take note of what the temp and humidity were, because humidity percentages... yeah, if it's 100% humidity, that's kind of telling you a lot, but the difference between 60% and 80% humidity is something you have to learn for yourself. So if it's a beautiful day and you're like, "Wow, I don't feel miserable," take a look. I've been doing this with the wind. The wind at the beach can sometimes be really bad and it'll reach a certain point where it just makes it unenjoyable because it's whipping your stuff around. And so the last time that happened, I was like, I'm looking up what the miles per hour wind was because I want to know because I'm not coming back the next time it gets that high. And so now I know, oh, 13, 14, 15, 16 mile an hour wind, we're not going to the beach that day. And you can kind of do the same with humidity, with temperature, with all of these things to make sure that if you're planning to go to the park or go run a bunch of errands on foot, that you're really sure you want to do this today versus waiting till tomorrow or whatever.
Sally: Totally. Yeah, man. That's a great segue. Let's talk about beach gear because you've become kind of a beach... you're our official beach correspondent of the podcast.
Rachel: Well, the thing that rocks is that the beach near me is 10 degrees cooler than the city, which is also something I learned from checking my weather app regularly--
Sally: [Gasps] Holy shit.
Rachel: --that I can just subtract 10 degrees. Which means it has to actually be pretty hot here to go to the beach, because if you go on a, "Oh, warm enough" day, you'll be cold out there, but also more importantly, we've reached a point where if the weather is over 90 on a weekend, we're probably just going to go to the beach because we cannot be outside and it's a perfect beach day. So I love going to the beach now. I don't swim, I just love going to the beach because it's cooler and it's nice, and it's a casual relaxing day but it doesn't feel like you're just lying around doing nothing, because you're doing it at the beach, so you're doing something. But the secret I've learned to liking the beach is just having beach gear. You can't lay on a towel all day long in the sun with nothing else. No one... I mean, I can't. I don't think most adults can do that comfortably. If you can, congratulations on being no fuss and low maintenance, but I need a little neck support and shade to be happy.
Sally: Yeah, I was just going to say the beach is great, but Rachel, what about people who get really uncomfortable in the heat or who get really hot and get really bored and get really hungry? It turns out that there are things you can do about all those things. Which I thought maybe I just sort of hated the beach, but it turns out that if you have the stuff that makes being at the beach more comfortable, you can actually spend a lot of time there.
Rachel: Yeah, it's wonderful. So I think that I would say my top two recommendations are a comfortable chair, which, there are so many chairs, they range in price from like $25-$100. I don't know that you need to have the Rolls Royce of beach chairs to enjoy yourself, but I think being intentional and being like, "I'm going to get a beach chair. I'm going to think about it for a few minutes and not just buy whatever, do I want to be sitting low to the ground or higher up?" Just answering some of those questions can point you in the right direction. So I think having a comfortable chair to sit in or if you can rent a chair, doing that, I think is huge. And then you have to have some sort of shade, to my mind, to enjoy yourself. So I think an umbrella can actually be great, but you might want to get... again, do a little research, get the kind of anchor that you screw into the sand to put your umbrella in so it's not going to blow over if you do go on one of those windier days. But truly, any beach umbrella is better than nothing, and then you can upgrade to a tent, which is the next level. And this year, I'm trying a new one where instead of digging it into the ground and having stakes, it's anchored by sandbags that you fill, but it has footies, like pajamas, and you fill those with sand and that holds it, and then you do put stakes up. But it's mostly sandbag weight, and it's incredible. We've gotten so many compliments every time we've taken it to the beach, and it is also the lightest, smallest thing to tote around, sets up super fast. So just those two things alone make a world of difference.
Sally: Yeah, that's huge. We had an umbrella that went into the ground with stakes, and even though all the reviews were like, "It's great, it doesn't get knocked over by the wind," it totally wasn't great, and it totally did get knocked over by the wind. And I feel like the trick is to have the footy that you put the sand in. Yeah, I think that having something good... having shade, food and drink and something to read or whatever, something to listen to, really, really makes all the difference. And I was going to save this until we get to talking specifically about the sun, but this is, I think, related more to the beach. The only time I really put on sunblock is when I'm at the beach because it's the only time I'm out in the sun. Don't tell any dermatologist that because you're supposed to wear it basically any time. If you even have an idea of going outside, you're supposed to slather yourself to be safe.
Rachel: If you sit by a window, you're supposed to put sunscreen on. The rules are very strict.
Sally: The rules are strict and we should all follow them. Shout out to the American Dermatology Association. The thing is, I hate putting on sunblock. I have an aversion to putting a lotiony thing on me and rubbing it all over, it makes me feel sticky and gross and yucky. And so, that actually does come into play when... if I have the option to go to the beach, I'm like, "Ugh, then I have to put on sunblock," and it's a whole thing and then sand gets on it. But it turns out, I don't know if you know this, Rachel, but no matter what preference you have for a product, whether it be SPF or fragrance or thickness or how you apply it or what kind of container it comes in, there's at least one sunblock on the market for you.
Rachel: I believe it.
Sally: Yeah, and so this is a problem that I've solved by just doing rigorous investigation, which means just buying a bunch of different sunblocks and finding the one that I don't hate to apply. And it sounds like maybe that's kind of a ridiculous tip, but I'm someone who definitely didn't realize that this part of the experience could be tweaked. You don't have to just buy the first sunblock that you see at CVS that's thick and greasy and then, if you're me, makes you break out later. You know what I mean? You can actually find something that isn't terrible to put on and doesn't make you break out and it smells okay and stuff. So that has been one kind of saving grace in terms of being able to spend any time at the beach and in the sun.
Rachel: This also brings up a bigger point, which I think is: a lot of things require trial and error. And when you're doing something like going to the beach, it's kind of so personal what you need to enjoy it, and when you're figuring out what works for you, you're going to need to be kind of fussy. And so I wouldn't recommend going with a bunch of friends you don't know very well when you can't bring all of your gear along or when they're not going to understand your little things you're trying to work out. I feel like you need to go with your significant other or your best friend or your sibling, or somebody who you can just be like, "I am realizing I'm not having fun because my chair is uncomfortable, but I'm going to get a new chair." Or like, "I'm trying out this new sunscreen, I don't want to try this other thing." Because I think that so much of summer is about care-free and being really down and having a good time, and it's okay to just not go to the beach with friends if you don't think you like the beach, until you figure out what you need to enjoy the beach, and then you can be like, "Okay, I know I've got my chair, I've got my good sunscreen I'm excited to go with friends, but these first few times I'm going to go by myself when I can just be as quote-unquote 'difficult' as I need to be and figure this stuff out." So I think ultimately, any season where you're having a rough time, it helps to have some control over things, and I really think that comes into play with the beach that when you go as a kid, you have no control and you're forced to wear a bathing suit you hate and forced to get in the water or do all these things you don't like. And you don't have to do that as an adult. That's an amazing thing that I didn't realize that, oh, I'm bringing a lot of childhood beach feelings to adulthood, but also remember you can just say, "Oh, this is how I do things now." And giving yourself that permission, I think, is really helpful.
Sally: Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's such a good tip: going to the beach with someone who either you feel totally comfortable with or is at a similar level of wanting to be prepared or whatever. Like my partner, you could just throw her on the beach without any shade, nothing to eat, nothing to drink, nothing to do, and she would totally figure out a way to have fun. She would figure out a way to go swimming. She would be fine. Me, I'm at the totally other opposite end of the spectrum where I just need... [laughs] I need a lot of support generally to enjoy life and even more so when the weather is extreme or I'm in a new environment. But for example, you and me, I feel like we would be a good match.
Rachel: Right.
Sally: We're calibrated similarly in terms of wanting to have things set up, so I really do think that doing these things with people who have a similar... who are calibrated in a similar way to you, or who just won't judge you for leaving 30 minutes after you get there, which is a thing I've done many times, is a really good call.
Rachel: I think that's true. I think maybe think of it like camping, both in terms of the amount of gear you probably need to enjoy it, and also the amount of comfort you need to feel with the people that you're going with if you're kind of a newbie. I wouldn't go camping with just anyone, obviously this isn't an overnight thing, but you are similarly braving some elements and you're going to want to feel like you're in good hands and that you trust the people to listen to you if you're stressed out or nervous or whatever. So choose your beach partners wisely.
Sally: Indeed. Moving on from the beach, I would say the biggest challenge I face in summer is what clothes to wear.
Rachel: Yeah, I think it's the worst season stressor. This is like maybe 80% of my summer hatred is what to wear. The clothes that I feel the most comfortable in, that I want to wear are just not summer clothing. I want to wear pants and a sweater, I want to wear boots, I want to wear a coat, and I can't do that, and every day that I can't do that, I feel like I wilt. My morning glories outside, which also wilt in the heat, I just feel bad. So have you figured out what you can wear in the summer to not feel so angry? [Laughs]
Sally: I mean, I'm getting there. I feel like this is my life-long project. Some people are working on having a meditation practice and not practicing non-attachment, other people are working through difficult relationships or whatever. My thing that I'm working through is like, "What the fuck to wear in summer to be comfortable." Fuck shorts, I hate wearing shorts.
Rachel: Oh my God, fuck shorts.
Sally: Yeah. I will wear them at a certain point because it's just too uncomfortable not to, but there is a balance. There is a point at which I would rather be a little bit uncomfortable and be wearing pants. At a certain temperature, it's too uncomfortable and it's not... I'd rather be wearing shorts and be less comfortable. One trick I've found is just basically every summer I find myself with a couple extra... I've accumulated a couple of pairs of pants that I'm otherwise going to give away, I cut them into shorts.
Rachel: Oh, that's smart.
Sally: And maybe I'm going to give them away because I haven't worn them in a while, but I like them well enough, they look okay. I like the way they look on me enough, I own them and they're my style, so cutting them into shorts, they're just going to be a little shorter. So that is a thing. But I find that going shopping for shorts doesn't work for me, because the shorts that... this maybe is changing, I guess, but the shorts that are in women's sections every season, no matter what is in style, they are cut in a way that I would just never put on my body. You would just never catch me in the kinds of shorts women are supposed to be wearing. But also, same with men's shorts. And then also with men's shorts, there's a fit problem for me. So I tend to resort to just cutting my pants all up.
Rachel: That's a good idea. I feel you could take them to a tailor too, if you don't want them to be cut-off shorts, you could have the hems finished so they look tidier.
Sally: That is what I should do, but when summer is around, I start getting so angry that I don't sit down to make a plan, I'm just like, "I guess I'm just cutting these all into shorts."
Rachel: That makes sense.
Sally: And that's what I do. But yeah, no, that is a very good idea. And in fact, you've been on this journey with me. I bought a pair of shorts from Old Navy and I really liked them mostly, except there was just one way they fit that I was not into, and I couldn't understand if I was wearing them wrong or my body was wrong [laughs] or if they were just a style I didn't like. But I took them to a tailor and the tailor did the thing for $15. She made them fit the way I wanted them to fit. So that's the other thing too -- you're right, you can get things, an expert can help you with these things.
Rachel: Well, speaking of shorts, I also have a shorts-related tip, which is that it's important to pay attention to the inseam when you're shopping for shorts, particularly online. So I hated shorts for a long time, and then finally came across a pair of shorts that I liked because Terry, who you know, was wearing them to work, and I was like, "Wow, those shorts look great." They were The Gap girlfriend short, which I don't know if they still make them, I'll look and if they're still available, I'll link to them in the show notes. But they just work for me. They're also a heavier material, which I think makes a difference in how they hang and if they're going to start riding up while you walk, I think that it's in part how your body is shaped, but also I think a flimsy fabric contributes to that, and these are thick enough, they come in a bunch of colors, they're wonderful. But the thing that I learned is that short inseam length is not the same on every pair of shorts, and there are shorts that'll be like two inch inseam or three inch inseam. Those are probably not what you want. They're not what I want, I want like four or five, six.
Sally: That's underwear.
Rachel: Yeah. Those are like, if you ever had horrible moments when you were a teenager going to American Eagle and being like, "These are the jean shorts, I'm putting them on," and being like, "I simply cannot wear these anywhere," it's those kinds of shorts. So I don't know what your particular inseam is going to be, but if you pay attention or if you find a pair of shorts that you like, if you bought them online, go look at the inseam length. If not, just measure them to figure it out and start to look for shorts with that inseam, and it will make a difference, I think.
Sally: Yeah, and I feel like inseams are like... thinking about inseam is all the rage these days, because there's been this conversation at least on Twitter of what inseam should men's shorts be and men should wear shorter shorts.'s And I have too many opinions already to actually be bothered to have an opinion on about how long men shorts should be, but there's this whole thing of like, seven inches is kind of the classic "a dude is wearing shorts" length, and there are some people who would have you believe that that's too long and it looks, I don't know, frumpy or whatever, and then there's the five-inch, which is... but you know, the thing is is that I simply cannot and will not make fashion choices in summer based on style. I can't. So it's going to be like, I'm going to just do what I can to be as comfortable as possible while also dressing like a version of myself that I'm willing to put in public. It's just not going to be... yeah, I feel the same way, it's just not going to be my best season. I want to be wearing a hoodie, I want to be wearing a long pant, I want to be wearing sneakers, I want to be wearing my Smartwool socks. So that's the other thing too, I would say I think maybe in an earlier age, you couldn't be comfortable and look fashionable, but I think that these days there is a crossover of reasonably fashionable and reasonably comfortable. You just have to, like you said, trial and error. You have to find it.
Rachel: Yeah. I also think you need to divest from your original thoughts of what is fashionable and think about what you feel good in and what looks good on you, because again, if you're like, "Well, women only ever wear two or three inch inseam shorts and I'll look bad if I don't wear that." That's not true. Of course that's not true. So what do you feel comfortable in? What does that look like in summer? I also think that accessories will go a long way, and color goes a long way. So with summer, as with every season, I'm looking for things in white and starting there and maybe just going monochromatic if and when possible is helpful, and then doing more accessories. So if I'm wearing white shorts and a white tank that are cut well, and I feel like look good on me, that's great, and then I can wear Birkenstocks that are either also white or that are a nice lavender or yellow or something like that. And maybe I've got something else, whatever to match or to coordinate, or big fruit earrings. I feel like I'm not the biggest accessories person, but I'm getting into them more in the summer because I'm not willing to wear much else, and so you can feel like you're dressing because you've got big lemon earrings or a cool hat or fanny pack or whatever. So I think just rethinking what looks good and not limiting yourself based on what other people are telling you looks good is pretty helpful.
Sally: Yeah, no, that's a really, really good call. I'm going to also just completely own the fact that moisture wicking socks and underwear are a game changer. This is something I learned when I was a runner. Cotton socks, a lot of people probably aren't wearing socks at all in summer, people are wearing flip-flops and other open toed shoes. I don't really tend to do that when I'm out and about because I have some weird hang-up about having my... I don't know, I have to work it out with my therapist, I don't know what it is with me and having feet out in the open, but I tend not to do it, so I wear a lot of sneakers and I wear no-show socks, which, watch this space for a review of some really weird no-show socks I got. Moisture wicking socks, they just make all the difference, your feet don't get as grossly swampy and sweaty, your feet you don't get as hot, they're also good in winter. Moisture wicking underwear. Listen, summer is sweaty, let's just not pretend it's not sweaty. And these are two things which as a runner, I was always trying to maximize my moisture wicking properties. And the thing is, is that most moisture wicking clothes, my personal perspective is they look really nerdy and I'm not going to be seen in a technical shirt, or I will be seen in a technical pair of shorts if I am working out, otherwise I'm just sort of into cotton. But the good thing about socks and underwear is that you wear them under your clothes, typically, and you do end up spending a little bit more money on these things than if you're getting just cotton, but I really do, I think that they make a world of difference in terms of comfort. And I highly recommend that if you're going to be wearing socks and underwear in winter, I mean, sorry, in summer, make them the moisture wicking variety.
Rachel: That is a really, really good tip that I haven't thought of. Also, speaking of feet, that actually brings me to another tip of mine, which is, so I actually don't wear socks much in the summer, and your feet get nasty, they get really gross. If you are wearing socks they also do, but they're going to get dirty, they're going to get sweaty, they're going to just be gross, and I don't even know when... 10, 15 years ago, I figured out, "Oh, if I don't want to take a full shower before bed, I should still give my feet a little wash," which you can even just give them a rinse, but I highly recommend it if your feet are feeling gross and it's making you feel gross. Go run your feet under the tap in the tub with some nice cooling water, maybe give them a little soap, but whatever, and then dry them. It will restore you and make you feel clean. And I have trouble sleeping if I'm feeling kind of grimy, I think most people do, and that is most obvious in my feet, especially on a nasty summer day, so get into just washing your feet once in a while. And also, I many years ago discovered this cooling foot spray, which you can... it's like a peppermint kind of deal, you can get it from The Body Shop, but that's also nice to keep in your bag if you're going to be out during the day and on your feet a lot, but to me that's just a substitute for the real pleasure, which is washing your feet at night.
Sally: I'm definitely going to get cooling foot spray, that sounds amazing. One tip that I feel like is kind of counter-intuitive, but I think is real, is... so this is another thing from when I was a runner. I found that when I was running a lot in the summer, the heat didn't bother me as much when I was out at other times, and I did some research on it at the time, I haven't looked since, so don't quote me on this, but basically the deal is, is that the more time you spend exerting yourself in the heat and humidity, the better your body gets at adapting to that heat and humidity and cooling itself down with sweating. And I remember that my first few runs in the heat of the summer season, my heart rate would get really high, it was just exhausting and fatiguing and stuff. And by the end of the summer, it just wasn't as fatiguing and it wasn't as hot, and that translated to being outside other times. And at the time I was like, I don't know if this is mental or what, if it's all in my head, but running in the heat makes it easier to just be in the heat normally. And so I do think that if you spend some time trying to acclimate to it. The strategy that I often fall back on is, "Well, it's hot, I'm not going out," is maybe counter-productive because the fact of the matter is, is that if you give your body and your mind too, I think some of it is psychological, if you give yourself a chance to be out in the heat and let your body react to it, it actually just feels less shocking and awful the next time you have to be out.
Rachel: I think that's right. I think that it probably is helpful if you spend that time doing things that you like, so it's also a positive association. I could not get myself to run in the heat and I would be so mad about it, I don't think the payoff would be worth it. But if I can sit in the park on a hot day with people I like, I think that that would help me acclimate to it and not feel mad about it, but instead would be like, "Oh, I sat outside on a hot day with people I like, and we had a good time even though it was hot." So I think it's about pushing yourself a little bit, but also pushing yourself in the direction of things you ultimately like and feel good about, I think tends to pay off.
Sally: Yeah, a hundred percent. The last thing I want to say before we move on, is I'm doing a visual... I'm doing a demonstration right now for you, Rachel, which is, I have this fan.
Rachel: Okay.
Sally: I started out with folded, it was just folded, it was a little box. Now you see it's a table fan, and now--
Rachel: Whoa!
Sally: --it's a standing fan. Now, the cool thing about this fan is that you charge it by USB, and it runs on battery for I think four hours at a minimum, so it's cool because you can bring it anywhere, for example. I could bring this out to my front porch, which is great for when it's hot, it's warm outside, a little bit too warm to sit there and enjoy yourself, you have this really light portable fan to bring with you, also great for keeping mosquitoes away, have a little breeze, so this is a great... I invested in this table top/standing floor fan that's portable, it goes with you anywhere and I'm not going to lie, this might come to the beach. Listen, when there's no breeze and you're in the sun, and it doesn't need to be plugged in. So yeah, that's my other rec, is just be one of those people who brings the fan with them places.
Rachel: Yeah, I think that's great. And there's tons of, I've seen clip on your beach chair fans and wear around your neck fans, there's a lot of options out there, and it kind of comes down to your personal comfort level. But I think just to start with bringing a fan outside on your porch or whatever your outdoor space is is a thing that people forget about and overlook that really does help. And then, yeah, if you want to just have a little purse fan that you pop out to do when you're really hot waiting for the subway, whatever, fans. Go for it. I think it's great.
Sally: It'd be amazing to actually bring this on the subway and extend it as a floor fan and just have it... [laughs]
Rachel: [Laughs] When you took it out, I was like, "Are you about to tell me that this is your portable fan that you take places with you?" And the answer is yes, but also I was envisioning you doing exactly that.
Sally: Like on the bus. Yeah, totally.
Rachel: Yeah, yeah, whatever. We're all hot. I think other people would be like, "Well, it's smart, I'm jealous. Let's catch that breeze."
Sally: Right. It's the kind of thing that I would never take a fan this big out as a portable fan, but if I saw someone else doing it, I'd be like, "You know what? Respect."
Rachel: A hundred percent. And I think you can get one that's slightly smaller and then you're very much in the clear taking it out.
Sally: Yeah. Totally.
Rachel: Okay, amazing tips on heat and humidity. Let's move on to our next topic, which is social pressure, and I think we kind of touched on this earlier, but this idea that summer should be like effortlessly fun, everyone's out having the best time of their lives, we're so lucky it's summer, we're going to be hanging with our friends. This to me is always one of the most soul-crushing parts about summer, because I feel like summer is just one long couple's holiday, but no one admits it.
Sally: So true.
Rachel: I think it's really difficult because for Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever big holiday is coming up, people often think about, "Oh no, our friend who doesn't have family around, what are they going to do for Thanksgiving?" But no one's thinking about that at the 4th of July, but yeah, unless you have family to do stuff with because you have a summer home, in which case, congratulations, that's lovely. Or you have a really tight friend group that plans things in advance and always does stuff together, which congratulations, I think you're an urban myth, but whatever. It's very easy to overlook people in the summer, and no one's really looking out for people in the same way, and so I feel like there's a lot of FOMO every year. Obviously this year it seemed like it could be a bit worse, but I don't know, it's a time where it feels like everybody's having fun without you, and it can feel really isolating, especially if you're also like, "But I don't actually want to go out, I don't want to do anything because it's so fucking hot."
Sally: Yeah, that's the trick right there, is like, "Why am I not out doing things with people"/"the last thing I want to do is be out doing things with people."
Rachel: Yeah, so the thing I've realized is to just take the lead on things and not necessarily wait to be invited. You don't have to hope to get the invite to the beach weekend. You can just plan a beach weekend with one other person or if you're comfortable doing it yourself and you want to do that or just do a beach day by yourself. Figure that out, make plans in advance, but also figure out, it doesn't have to be a beach weekend to feel fulfilling. It can be a trip to a public garden or the zoo or whatever. Figure out what you want to do and invite some people to come along, and if they say yes, great, if they don't, well, you tried and they know you want to hang out and want to be friends. But I think just not waiting for people to invite you to stuff, because then it's like, a) you're waiting to be invited and b) you're slightly dreading the things they're inviting you to anyway, so take the lead. It also gives you an opportunity to share what you are most excited about doing.
Sally: Yeah. In many ways, this is something you've talked about, and I think written about before, that the social pressure of summer, the expectation that it should feel like a Coca-Cola commercial, we should all be playing volleyball in the park with our friends or whatever, is a lot harder than in winter, the expectation is, if you make it through the day without crying, and even if you do cry, that's fine, we're all just trying to get through winter. I feel like that's the messaging. And so it's a lot to live up to. And as a person of easily uncomfortable and often worried experience, it takes a lot for me to be loose and fancy free under the best of circumstances, and in summer it's even harder just because of the heat and the humidity and the sun and all that stuff. So in addition to your tip of taking the lead on making plans, which I think is like a great call, is to just be really honest about your preferences. And you can decide that you have hard lines. I wrote in our note document, think of them as dietary restrictions but for the season. So I don't do full days at the beach, or I don't go hiking in the afternoon, or a big one for me is, I don't eat outside, which I do up to a certain temperature, but there are people I see eating outside in temperatures where I just would absolutely never, I'm too uncomfortable. And this summer for me, that means I'm not doing a lot of group meals out with people because I don't really feel comfortable eating indoors right now with the pandemic, but just being honest about what my boundaries are in terms of like, "Listen, this is my 43rd summer. I know that I don't want to go out at 2:00 in the afternoon to go on a hike, when the heat..." I mean, I don't really want to go on a hike at all, but as an example. I don't want to go out when the sun is at its peak, or I don't want to go. If you want to sit outside in the heat and humidity and have drinks and dinner, God bless you, but I'm just not going to be doing that with you, and so I think I spent a lot of time not really being that honest about what my limits were because I wanted to be more fun than I am, or I wanted to identify as a fun, chill person. But I'm just not fun and chill, and let me say, it's so much more fun and chill to be honest about what you want to do, rather than not be honest and then be in a situation where you're grumpy and annoyed and uncomfortable. That's very not chill.
Rachel: No, it's not. Yeah, I think also this stuff is not that -- no one wants to go with somebody who doesn't want to be there, and you can very much make it a "me" thing versus a "you" thing. And you can just be like, "I'm so not a hiking person, but I'd love to get together with you for whatever other thing." Or like, "Oh man, a hike at 2:00 in the afternoon sounds like it might give me heat stroke, but would you be willing to get up early and go first thing in the morning? Totally understand, if not." You can just throw out other suggestions to communicate, like, "I want to see you, I want to hang out with you, but also this is who I am." And it's fine. Most people get it and have their own things too, and there's other options for things to do. And I like going to the beach, but I would never pressure somebody to go to the beach who is not a beach person. If they're on the fence and are willing to be sold on the idea by sitting in a tent, I'd be like, "Okay, we'll give it a try." But I'm not going to drag somebody to the beach because it's not fun for everyone. Nothing is fun for everyone, and so I think most people, especially as you get older, understand that, and I don't know, I just... if you don't understand that, I don't know man. Water isn't for everyone, nature and outdoors is not for everyone, at least not in every iteration of it. So suggest some other things that are involved, like, I don't know, sitting in an air-conditioned space. That's also... can we do that? That would be great.
Sally: So this is where the errand hang comes in, which is one of my favorite ways to hang out with friends is one or both of you has things to do, like I've got to pick up something at the dry cleaner, I've got to run into Target, I have to return this thing. I think this is a really good summer hang because you can spend it going from air-conditioned place to air-conditioned place. I don't know, I find errand hangs to be inherently a really fun way of bonding and connecting with someone, and you're doing something kind of together, but you're kind of doing your own thing, and I think it's really fun and a great summer thing. And maybe this isn't... If you have someone coming in from out of town to visit you, maybe you're not suggesting the errand hang, but Rachel, if we lived in the same city and we hung out all the time, I feel like we'd be doing errand hangs.
Rachel: I completely agree. I do think it requires being some place where you can drive to most of these things, unless you're going early enough in the morning or whatever, the weather is pretty mild, because walking from errand to errand is pretty brutal, but yeah, I think when you can drive, it's a great hang, it's very fun. And I don't know, walking around a Super Target in the summer just getting blasted with AC and looking at, I don't know, water detergent and nail polish, and I don't know, Chex Mix, is perfect to me. I want nothing else.
Sally: Oh man, that sounds so good. That sounds so fun right now, God. Yeah, just hang out in Target.
Rachel: Yeah. [Laughs]
Sally: What are we doing not hanging out in Target?
Rachel: Yeah. All right, I think that kind of covers the social stuff. So should we move on to dealing with the sun? Which, we talked about a little bit in the heat and humidity section, but I feel like there's a few more ideas here that are definitely worth sharing.
Sally: Yes, I'm excited to talk about the sun. My first tip here, I am someone who really likes CVS sunglasses, just really fun, cheap plastic sunglasses that you get at Rite Aid or whatever, or some place where you're a tourist. And I have a lot of really fun sunglasses, but here's the thing about cheap sunglasses, is that they make everything really dark without actually protecting your eyes, and so you're sort of getting the worst of both possible worlds. But it turns out that you can buy decent sunglasses for $20 or $30 and they have all of the things that sunglasses should have to protect your eyes from UV light and stuff like that, and they can look cool and interesting. So this is my first summer of actually investing in decent sunglasses, and I'll link in the show notes where I got a couple of them, but they're just like, I don't need $300 wrap-around Ray Bans or whatever, and I generally don't need something that I'm going to be... you know, sunglasses are with you when you're being active, so I don't want something where if I drop it or something happens, I'm going to be beside myself. But it turns out that if you go a little bit higher than $5.99, you get something that's pretty decent and doesn't make things as dark. Did everyone know this, that if you don't buy drug-store sunglasses, they aren't as dark?
Rachel: I don't know if I... I never really thought about it before.
Sally: It's like they're better without darkening the world so much. Because sometimes you put on sunglasses and it's kind of like a buzzkill because it's so dark that you can't enjoy the sunny day, but the last couple of pairs I've gotten that I would say fall under the category of decent, they make things a little dark, but not too dark. Anyway, the point is, decent sunglasses, get them.
Rachel: That's a good tip. And I think that's true of my most recent sunglasses too, that they aren't actually that dark at all, but they do the job, so that's a good tip. Mine is a similar one about blocking the sun, and that is getting a hat or a visor. So I think that what I'm realizing as we're talking, is that summer is a great time to kind of adopt a new personality. You can wear different clothes, you can try different things. And I feel like, especially post-pandemic, the time is ripe for a new personality, and mine is a person who wears baseball hats some of the time. So we went to a sporting goods store near our apartment and they had just plain cloth baseball caps in every single color of the rainbow, and I got this really pretty pale yellow one. And I also have yellow Birkenstocks, and so together those things are my summer accessories, I'm doing some pops of yellow this summer. But I love this hat and I love just throwing it on when I'm taking Chuck out and it's hot and sunny, it really does the job of blocking the sun for my face, but I also feel like people don't think of visors as a sometimes accessory that you can wear to and from the subway. You can wear it like you would sunglasses, treat it as such. It doesn't have to be a thing you wear all day and is part of your look, it ruins your hair, it's something like gloves or a scarf that you can just put on for the part of the time when you're outside and then take it off. And so, just remembering that humans many years ago invented things to keep the sun off your face that actually do the job quite well, and if you're overlooking them, maybe give them another chance.
Sally: Yeah, that's a really good call. I love your yellow hat. It's awesome. And I'm also this close to just walking around with an umbrella in the sun.
Rachel: Yeah, I'm for it.
Sally: That's another thing where I see people do that, and I'm like, "Why am I not doing that? It's incredible."
Rachel: Yeah, I agree, I think it's worth it. You can get umbrellas that actually block UV rays. Search for that specifically. So it's not just an umbrella, but it's the thing that I see it and I'm like, "Yeah, that was smart. It's too hot out here."
Sally: Yeah, exactly. It's way too hot, you can't afford not to carry around an umbrella in the sun. So I talked about sunblock, which was a big hurdle for me, but I feel like I'm really working through it. Aloe with lidocaine, I feel like is just magical, particularly when you have a sunburn, it's amazingly soothing. But even when you don't, if you've spent all day outside in the hot sun and you've applied your sunscreen and you're not sunburned, the aloe is so freaking cooling and I actually really like the texture because it's like pudding, kind of, but for your skin, and it doesn't leave your hands greasy. In fact, like after you rinse your hands just with water, your hands feel super clean. So I really, really like it. And this is something that I've learned from my partner. She just kind of doesn't go anywhere when the sun is out without aloe. It has the same status as the sunblock itself. It's really great, it's really great before bed or whatever, when you want to cool down after a day in the sun.
Rachel: That sounds great. I'm going to have to add that to my list.
Sally: I guess my last thing is another thing that I hate about being outside in the warm weather, which is bugs. Which I feel like you don't really have in New York as much, right?
Rachel: Knock on wood, I feel like you...you just never know. I would never say that we don't. It just kind of feels like where you are specifically within the city.
Sally: Yeah, yeah, yeah, true.
Rachel: Some days you just are like, "I'm at this particular backyard hangout and the bugs are here." But I don't feel like it's... I grew up in Michigan, and I would be covered in mosquito bites every single summer all the time, but it's not like that lately, here, to me.
Sally: Yeah, now that we're in Philly, I'm getting bitten by a lot of mosquitoes all the time, and I hate it so much. This is another example of when I experience a tiny bit of discomfort, I become insufferable. I went outside today, I was talking to a neighbor for 15 minutes and I got five mosquito bites and I just was in a complete rage about it. I hate bug spray because I hate putting sticky stuff on me. This is similar to the sunblock thing. I don't like the way it smells, I don't like the way it makes my skin feel. I would just rather get bitten than be sticky, but I cannot in a calm way, abide being bitten. So my thing is calamine spray. Calamine lotion, you put it on a cotton ball, you put it on the bite, whatever, that's fine. I've found that the spray, I don't know if it's because of the pressure with which it is leaving the bottle, it kind of feels like you're scratching a bug bite or something, and it's easy to apply, so I don't have to actually touch it and get it on me, I'm realizing that I have a lot of feelings about like textures and--
Rachel: Sensation, yeah.
Sally: --yeah, on my skin. So you don't have to touch it, and it really is relieving. And I don't really mind mosquito bites. I don't mind having these red, itchy bumps all over me, as long as they aren't actually actively itching. So I just skip the bug spray entirely and go right for the calamine spray. I think if I lived in a place like what you were talking about with Michigan, or if I was out in nature more, I was in the forest, you know what that means, but let's say I was in the forest, Rachel. I think in that case, I would use bug spray, but otherwise, I just can't be bothered. But the calamine spray is everything.
Rachel: That sounds great, I'm sold.
Sally: I feel like we've done a lot of really good spon-con inadvertently in this episode. [Laughs] Calamine, hit us up if you're listening.
Rachel: That would be great.
Sally: Okay. Do you have anything else to say about summertime before we move on?
Rachel: Just that it ends. It doesn't end as soon as you think it's going to. It doesn't end in September, which Big Back-to-school wants you to believe or Big Sweater wants you to believe. But it does end. Come October, it will get better. I think ultimately just try to find one or two things that you like about it that you can fuck with, that you can lean into and really prioritize those, and then just grit your teeth and do what you can to get through the rest. But don't feel bad about not being a summer person, it's a hard season. I think we think of winter as this very extreme season with extreme weather, and I just think summer is way more extreme and it barely snows in New York, but it's hot and humid most days in the summer. It's so much more extreme to me, and I think treating it as such and recognizing, of course you need a good winter coat and winter boots and gloves, you need stuff to deal with summer, you can't just tool around in whatever outfit, you really have to treat it as an event, and I think doing that helps a lot.
Sally: Yeah, you're totally right. And I think that Big Popsicle had us believing that like all we needed was like a cool treat in the summer to have fun in the same way that Big Pumpkin Spice Latte has us thinking that summer ends in September, and now we know more, and we can--
Rachel: We know better.
Sally: --we know better, we can plan for these things. "When you know better, you do better." I think that's about planning for different seasons, that quote.
Rachel: It definitely is. All right, Sally, what is your nice thing to end on?
Sally: So my nice thing to end on is this cassette, which I'm showing you, which is Pearl Jam live in 1992 playing their album Ten. My partner and I were walking around in our neighborhood and there was a pop-up used, I don't know, it was used stuff? [Laughs] And a bunch of cassettes of live concerts and for a dollar I bought this cassette of a show I would have loved to have... I would have loved to have seen Pearl Jam live. I never have, this is my favorite album by them. And so I bought it for a dollar. And not only is it just super fun to listen to a band you really like live, it's also from my childhood, so it makes me super nostalgic. And I put it in my little tape deck and I went on this whole trip down memory lane and thinking about music in the early nineties and the concerts I've been to and the bands I used to like, and it was just really delightful. And I highly recommend, even if you don't buy a cassette for a dollar and listen to it, listen to something from when you were 13 and just get involved in some nostalgia.
Rachel: That's nice. I feel summer is prime time for nostalgia, so it's a good time for that.
Sally: Absolutely.
Rachel: That is a good segue into my nice thing to end on, which is Sex in the City, which I've been rewatching lately. I've talked about this on my blog, but I'll mention it here too. I think I've seen every episode once, and then I owned season four on DVD, so I've seen season four a lot. But I do not remember all of the episodes, so this is a fresh rewatch. I haven't rewatched these episodes in at least ten years, probably more. And so some of the stuff is burned into my memory where I know exactly what line is coming and I know the punchline to the joke or whatever, but then some of it is new. In either case I'm watching it with fresh eyes. And then my girlfriend has never seen it before, so she's watching it with totally fresh eyes and I'm having such a fun time. Like, it's not great, and it's not good exactly, but also I'm enjoying watching it.
Sally: Yeah. "It's not great and it's not good but I'm enjoying it" is a category of TV that I feel deeply at home with.
Rachel: Yeah. It's been fun. And I also have gone down the rabbit hole of reading the original columns that inspired the show and then reading this other book that was published in 2018. Because I was like, I want to know what people were saying about it at the time. This book kind of covers that, but also is a really good, behind the scenes of here's how it got made and here's how they cast each role, that is very fun and just light and frothy. And I'm doing a full 360 Sex in the City immersion summer course right now, and I'm having a good time.
Sally: I want to sign up for that course. I want to hear everything about it. And I also, part of me wants to just also rewatch it so that we can talk about it. Andrea has seen Sex in the City, several times I watched it for the first time in 2016, it was sort of the only media that I could watch after Trump was elected. I don't know why, don't ask me why.
Rachel: [Laughs]
Sally: Not great, not good, love watching it.
Rachel: [Laughs]
Sally: But you know, because I was in a fugue state for the first half of 2016, I feel I could rewatch it and it would all seem totally new to me. So yeah, maybe we should have a Sex in the City rewatch club.
Rachel: I think that'd be really fun, yeah. And then we can talk, we can do another episode where we talk about, are you a Carrie, are you a Miranda, are you...
Sally: I would love to do that.
Rachel: Yeah. I think we should do a follow up.
Sally: I have to do that. I sincerely believe I am some character who was on one episode and didn't even maybe have a name in the credits.
Rachel: I know the episode too, and I'm going to take this offline. [Laughs]
Sally: All right, we'll be taking this offline, so we have to go now because we have to continue this conversation off the air. Thank you for listening to this episode of Oh I Like That. Please rate us and review us wherever you listen to podcasts.
Rachel: You can also follow us on Twitter @ohilikethatpod, email us at ohilikethatpod@gmail.com and you can follow the two of us. I'm @the_rewm and Sally is @sallyt.
Sally: Oh, I that is produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas. Amber Seger, who is @rocketorca on social media, designed our logo.