We're back! And we're going to talk about what it's like to have a mild case of COVID and what kinds of things can come in handy during recovery.
You might have noticed we took a week off. Well, that's because Rachel was recovering from a mild case of COVID. Now we're back, and we decided to use this episode to talk about what it was like to test positive and what "mild" COVID even is. We also talked about which aspects of having COVID were the most surprising, and what was particularly helpful during her recovery.
This episode was produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas Nguyen. Our logo was designed by Amber Seger (@rocketorca). Our theme music is by Tiny Music. MJ Brodie transcribed this episode. Follow us on Twitter @OhILikeThatPod.
Things we talked about
Rachel: Welcome to Oh I Like That, a podcast about things we like and occasionally things we don't. I'm Rachel Wilkerson Miller.
Sally: And I'm Sally Tamarkin, and we're back. Thank you everyone for hanging out while we took a week off, some much needed rest and recuperation time for Rachel, which actually is relevant to this week's episode. Rachel, what are we talking about?
Rachel: We're talking about COVID today, directly, we're talking about my having COVID specifically, which is why we took a week off and I'm going to answer all your burning questions about it.
Sally: Awesome. I can't wait, because I do have a lot of questions. Before we get into it, I think it's always good to start with a vibe check.
Rachel: Absolutely. Tell me about your vibe this morning.
Sally: Man. My vibe is frantic, Rachel.
Rachel: Yeah [laughs].
Sally: I'm really chaotic this morning. I didn't sleep well, I slept terribly. And when I did sleep, I had really bad dreams. And so I woke up feeling whatever the opposite of refreshed is, and it's totally carried over to my morning energy. I feel like I'm bouncing off the walls, but in a chaotic way. So I think we'll see what that means for this episode.
Rachel: Well [laughs] maybe everyone's in for a treat, who knows? I also didn't sleep very well last night and also had very vivid dreams. So yeah, I'm right there with you.
Sally: Okay. So I guess the vibe, at least partially, is overtired and chaotic. What about you? What's the vibe for you?
Rachel: I mean, the vibe for me is DayQuil. It's the same as it's been for the last week, week and a half. Again, we're going to talk about all this in the episode, but I'm fine this morning. I'm just pottering around very slowly in an effort to not do too much.
Sally: Totally. I think that's a great segue to the first of my burning questions. And I think that if anyone who knows you IRL or follows you online or has read your work, I think probably also has this question. And the question is, what do you make of the whole how you got COVID mystery? Because you are someone who, since this whole thing began, has not engaged in any kind of behavior that-- you know those charts that show the spectrum of risk, of things you can do relatively safely versus relatively unsafe versus risky. None of your behaviors are even on that poster because they carry no risk. They're basically, stay inside one's home, don't interact with anyone but the other person in your home.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: So this has been... I feel like Encyclopedia Brown. I really want to get to the bottom of it. So I guess the question is, what do you make of it? Do you have theories about how you got it? Just, can you riff on that?
Rachel: Yeah. I mean, I think that I'm never going to know how I got it and right now the working theory is that I probably got sick first and then got my girlfriend sick, both because I was the one going outside to take my dog out regularly every single day, so just by virtue of that, I was the one who was doing riskier things, and then also I had a milder case. So our theory is that I got it masked and didn't get as bad of a case and then gave it to her when we were both unmasked. So I would have been just breathing more particles at her. So obviously we don't know that for sure, but that's kind of where we're starting. So like I said, the only thing I do is take my dog out. And that has just not been... at no point in this was it a thing that people were told to worry about? The trip outside is super, super short. I rarely if ever encounter other people, even more rarely, am I encountering people who are unmasked, nothing notable happened in the week when I likely got sick, but also, people in our building are not being particularly conscientious. So over the past six or eight months, we've definitely seen people in and around our building unmasked who live here; the building's gym and pool are open and have been for a few months, which is just like super wild to me. People are regularly posting on the message board, like, you know, "It would be really great if the building could get a better scale for the gym." And I'm just like, what are your priorities right now that you're going to the gym and also you want a BMI scale right now? Get a grip, what is wrong with you? So, you know, people around us are having guests over, our neighbors on both sides traveled for the holidays, it's a bit of a free-for-all in that sense. So even though going inside and outside seems to be super low risk and I'm not really seeing other people when I do, I'm definitely not talking to people or interacting with people, there's also a real possibility that somebody came through unmasked right before I did, just in that terribly unfortunate knock of time that allowed them to be sneezing in the hallway when I was just out of earshot, but then walked through it. I've also wondered if I walked through it on the way out and on my way back in, perhaps. I just don't know. It feels kind of like a freak accident, like the sort of thing that, who knows what I could have done to prevent it further. I think that I probably started double masking maybe the day after I got sick, I can't remember for sure. Which is unequivocally a good thing, I'm really glad I did, because I was still going in and out for that first week when I didn't know I was sick, so that would've kept me likely from potentially getting other people sick. But yeah, it's impossible to know, and I've sort of made peace with that, but like I said, nothing of note happened during that week. There was no close call, I don't have any memory of passing by people who were waiting in the hallway or anything like that. So yeah, that's our best theory, but we'll never know for sure.
Sally: Yeah. So, I mean, just to be clear, you do live in New York City in a building with other apartments, but you don't take an elevator to get outside. So, you have a short walk to get from inside to outside. And what you're saying is that you didn't have an experience where you came back from it and were like, "Oh god, I hope that wasn't a transmission event."
Rachel: Exactly. Also I think surface transmission seems pretty unlikely. It seems pretty unlikely in general, over the past year it seems like that's not the main thing, but also we're very conscientious of that even knowing that, and have a really strict routine from coming back inside. All those clothes stay in the entryway, I change everything I was wearing, we're very regimented. Also, because it's been cold out I've been wearing gloves when I go outside. So, you know, that obviously is not going to protect me fully, but that coupled with hand-washing, it seems unlikely. Again, who knows? I do think that we're probably going to find out in a few months that the more contagious variant was spreading really widely in New York at this time. And I think if that's the case, that will make a lot of sense. It feels like so much of this virus has been a month or two behind on important information like that. And we're just not doing the sequencing in the United States that would allow us to know that. We had been behaving as though it were already here in January. The numbers are really alarming coming off the holidays, we really, really locked it down. And one thing that was helpful is that our building changed the package pickup process so that we didn't have to go to the mail room anymore. They bring the packages to your door now if you request that, and they leave them outside the door, so we're not interacting at all, which is a huge relief because that was the one thing that we had been doing. And it was worrying because there could sometimes be a line there. And sometimes I would leave and come back later and it was a whole mess. So the new package pickup process eliminated a whole other potential for getting sick. And it just really at the right time, because, you know, in January we had this feeling of-- not that we need to double down, because there wasn't really something to double down on, but just more like, we were saying to each other, the numbers coming off the holidays are scary. Not that we were interested in easing up, but we really do need to make sure there's not a margin for error. So again, it feels like probably really, really bad timing. And, you know, there's nothing you can do about things like that. I don't look back on this and think, what can I do now to be safer? I just don't even know that a version of that exists, and I feel like I would go sort of crazy trying to figure that out. So yeah. I feel like I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Sally: Yeah. I mean, this is one of the instances where I feel really angry about how our country has handled this.
Rachel: Yeah, me too.
Sally: Because, you know, if there had been more mask mandates and your building was enforcing it as a result of that, more people in your building would be masked, you know? And I think, you know, I'm on record as having a lot of anger at individuals who have for whatever reason, decided that wearing a mask consistently, or at all, or over their nose and their mouth, is not a thing that is their responsibility. I feel that anger intensely, but I also feel incredibly angry at the entire system of how this has been handled, because I feel like the answer to, how could you possibly have gotten it being this safe? I feel like that is the answer, is how it has been handled by our country.
Rachel: Absolutely, right. It shouldn't have been this way. It shouldn't have been this way from the get-go. And I mean, to speak to my building a little bit more, the other night when I was taking Chuck out, it was pretty late. Somebody came out, I don't know, they were like fifteen feet behind me in the hallway. So basically there was always a door separating the two of us, I was kind of getting through ahead of them -- but they came out right after I did, no mask on, and just stood there holding the door open while they let their dog piss in a spot like you probably shouldn't have let him go. So they were just a person who doesn't seem to care a whole lot about being in a society. They went back in ahead of me, and as I was following, I'm coming through a door and I can see them getting in an elevator with no mask on. And it's just... that shit right there. You know, I wasn't in an elevator, but just seeing that lack of conscientiousness, this person thinking, "Well, I'm just taking my dog out and there's no one around," and just not being aware of how your behavior affects others is really frustrating to watch. So seeing that was kind of like, yeah, okay. A reminder that the people who live in this building are not necessarily that interested in being safe or protecting other people.
Sally: Right. Totally. So can you talk about... I feel like over the course of the last year, we've learned that there are various symptoms that go along with having COVID and it's always sort of a surprise, like, we learned about a new thing and some people experience a lot of one thing and not a lot of another. And it seems like every case of COVID is a snowflake.
Rachel: [Laughs] Right.
Sally: What symptoms or just aspects of having it were surprising to you?
Rachel: I think the biggest thing was that my symptoms were really, really similar to allergy symptoms and then a sinus infection, particularly the first weekend. My nose and face was just really itchy, my ears were itchy, my throat, my mouth, just itching. And we looked at so many different websites. There are so many charts that are broken down by the symptoms of a cold, the symptoms of allergies, symptoms of sinus, flu, COVID -- and itchy mouth, sinus pressure, that really didn't check the COVID box at all. It just wasn't on there. And so, I really did -- obviously getting sick and coughing in 2020 or in 2021, of course your mind goes there, but it was reassuring to keep reading over and over again, this is probably just allergies. It mimicked my allergies so much. And I had had a couple allergic reactions on Tuesday and Thursday of that week that were sort of clearly tied to kicking up dog hair and dust in the apartment. It was really dusty in here, and I actually did a big clean around the time to help with that. So it just felt like, "Okay, I've triggered something." I ended up having a One medical appointment on Sunday night and COVID never came up. They didn't even mention it. It was just like, not a concern, I think, because we had been so safe and because I was like, this is so similar to my allergy symptoms. And I have a prescription nasal spray that was really low and I wasn't able to really get much out on Saturday and then I was able to on Sunday, and after I did it on Sunday I immediately felt better. And it was like, "Okay, so this is probably just allergies." So those things together, I think if I had lived alone and no one around me had gotten sick, I probably would have continued to think that I was okay for several more days. It wasn't until Monday when my girlfriend started to have symptoms that were different and then sort of similar, but kind of just a different thing that it was like, okay, it's concerning that we're both sick at the same time. Because, you know, having bad allergies and then getting a sinus infection from that can happen, but I wouldn't have passed that to her. So that was when it became like, okay, do I have something contagious? If so, what? She also had a One medical appointment on Tuesday morning and they were just like, "Oh, it sounds like sinusitis," and they were also not concerned. I'm really glad we got tested, but I think that my biggest takeaway is don't bet on allergies and don't count out sinus pressure or anything sinus related, because since this happened, I've talked to other people who are younger, who had milder cases, and they've also mentioned it was very sinusy. So I think that's not something I had heard much before.
Sally: Yeah. You know, we were thinking, Andrea got really sick in I think November and got a COVID test that was negative, but she read your blog posts, which by the way, we'll link to, Rachel wrote a really awesome detailed post about what it was like to have COVID which you should read. Andrea, read it and was like, "Oh, I had a lot of this. I wonder if I actually got like a false negative." Which I guess is possible, and maybe she would-- whatever, we don't know. But, you know, when you were describing your symptoms to me when you were going to get tested, I was like, there's absolutely no way Rachel has COVID, it has to be allergies or something else because there's no possible way for you to have gotten it. And the chilling thing about the reality we live in now is, it was possible.
Rachel: Yeah, exactly.
Sally: That's how contagious this is, and also how ubiquitous it is. And not to be an alarmist about it, because I agree with you that there obviously was an element of wrong place, wrong time. But when something is so pervasive, it's like, even when you have symptoms that don't match the exact things we've read about, as you were saying, we are sort of learning a month or two after the fact what has been going on. And so it definitely pays to not think we know every single thing about this thing.
Rachel: Right, absolutely.
Sally: And if you get sick and it's a cold or related to a cold or sinusitis, you should get a COVID test.
Rachel: You absolutely should get a test. It just isn't worth trying to figure this out on your own. There's no need to play detective here when you can likely go get a test. Obviously that depends on what state you're in, but if you're having symptoms, in most states that will help you get a test. So go, please get a test. The other thing that really surprised me -- maybe not surprised me, but just bears repeating -- is how healthy I felt until I started coughing. I didn't feel any different, I didn't have any sense that something was wrong. Like I said, there were no close calls that made me on edge. So, you know, I was going about my business as normal. I was working out in our apartment and I was cooking and I was eating normally, everything was completely fine. And I think that that's a really hard thing to wrap your head around. And I think that's probably why this has spread so much, because it is just so difficult to conceive of asymptomatic spread and the idea that you could be sick and not know it. I just don't think most of us think that way about our own bodies and about the way we move through the world. And I said this in my blog post, but if I had been doing outdoor dining or if I had a pod or if I were seeing friends and family here and there, I absolutely would have done it that week without thinking about it because I had been so safe and had no reason to believe I was sick. So you really cannot just sort of trust your own sense of, "Well I've been safe, so I'm fine," or "I feel fine." You will feel fine until you don't. And by the time you don't, it's too late in a lot of instances. So I really can't stress enough how important it is to stay in this and to stay locked down and to not take chances and to not take your mask off. This is not the time to like, take your foot off the gas. This is the time to really, really commit. The end is in sight, and it's so frustrating that we're not going to get there if we all don't commit to staying in and to doing what we can to mitigate transmission. The more people get it, the more likely it is that there are going to be variants. The variants thus far, the vaccines are still working, but we can't bet on that. We have to keep people from getting it and keep it from spreading. So this is my plea to everyone to please, please, please tell your pod that you need to go on hiatus for a few weeks, cancel your plans to see people unmasked outside, maybe even masked outside. Really take this seriously and rethink -- what worked in the summer when case numbers, at least in New York, were really, really low, just might not work anymore when case numbers are so much higher and there's a more contagious variant spreading. The things that we thought were fine before, they might have been fine in large part or in some part because numbers were low, we don't really know, but I think it's important to hold that in your mind -- that the things that kept you safe thus far, they might not work the same way just because of this variant and because of the higher numbers. So, you know, reevaluate what you're doing through that lens, I think
Sally: Mm-hmm, yeah, I totally agree. I feel like there's a little bit of a dichotomy on social media where if you talk about being frustrated with individuals not wearing masks, the assumption is that you don't have a good analysis of the neglect and harm, the neglect that the government has engaged in and the harm that they've caused on a systemic level. And I do have that anger and I do have that analysis and I do feel really strongly about that. And also at the same time, it is tough to see people who you know have all the privilege in the world decide that it's too hard to not go on vacation, it's too hard to not be in a pod, it's too sad and boring and lonely to not hang out with friends or whatever. So that continues to be kind of a thorn in my side.
Rachel: Yeah. I have, like you, been frustrated by that, because it's like, we can do both things. We can be disgusted and upset by leadership and government and what they're doing and not doing, and also hope that the people who are in a position to help by wearing a mask when they go out, by canceling their plans, by not having people over and not going to friends' houses, whatever, would do that. And I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. I feel very, very, very angry at what has happened in the state and the city of New York. I also always wear a mask, because I'm angry, those things go together. And so it feels a bit like a cop out to me and it has for this whole time and yeah, is it great that personal responsibility has come into play? No, it's not, but this is the world we live in. And so we can be angry while also doing our part to mitigate spread and to make things better, faster. So I feel very frustrated with the way that that conversation has sort of been shaped, on Twitter predominantly. And it feels very intellectually dishonest to me, and it feels like it's driven by people who want to justify their own behavior. And that makes me really frustrated too, that you're not impartial just because you're a journalist. You also have an interest in justifying the things that you're doing. And I think that it's been remarkably irresponsible the way that some journalists have behaved.
Sally: I agree. And I think also they're never the people I see doing a lot of advocating for paying people to stay home, which is absolutely what the government should have done. The people who I see calling people pandemic scolds, and stuff like that are people who, based on my knowledge about their income and what they do in the world, they can afford to stay home. And, you know, we don't ever know every single person's situation and circumstances and stuff like that. But when you see enough white people with jobs that put them in the owning class talking about how anyone who talks about masks is a scold, but don't spend any time talking about how the government should pay us to stay home or spend any time working on any sort of political cause or initiative that would result in fewer people getting evicted or fewer people losing their jobs. To me, that's a clue that the conversation is being had in a really bad faith way. And I feel like the number of people who think that people who are obsessed with masks and staying home are scolds, who are also doing that really important work, is vanishingly small.
Rachel: It is, it's very small.
Sally: I'm sure they're there and they're just not on Twitter because they're doing important work.
Rachel: Right. The other thing that I've been thinking about is just the attitude of everyone right now versus the attitude of everyone in March and April of last year. And I was looking at the New York Times COVID dashboard this morning. So on April 10th 2020, the number of new cases in New York City was 5,575. On January 28th, which was the day after we got our results, the number of new cases was 6,487. So more new cases in January, the end of January, than there were in April of 2020, when we were hearing sirens all the time and people were terrified to leave their homes. And deaths are falling and that's great, but the way people are behaving right now is wildly different than they were in April. And I'm trying to figure out why that is. Is it that this isn't the blaring headline anymore? Is it that people don't want to know so they're not looking? I don't quite understand, but I see a lot of people just in complete denial about what the reality is, because things are better in many ways, but things are not better. The new case numbers are higher and I don't feel like anyone's really... I'm getting the sense from people who are continuing to do things that they are not basing it in the reality of what case numbers are. And I'm wondering if not, then what are they basing it in? Or do they think case numbers are different than they are? I have no idea, but it's a reliable place to check and see if having a pod is a good idea right now. After we've been doing this for ten months, the idea of two weeks of it doesn't feel that bad, even three weeks, four weeks. So what if you do put your pod on hold for four weeks until it's a little bit warmer and numbers are down a little bit, would that be the worst thing in the world? Maybe, but I think it's really important to go through that exercise and stay honest about what your motivation is and what you're capable of and not just stay on the same path because it's the path that you've been on and it's a comfortable one.
Sally: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I agree. That's really well said. So let me get back to my burning questions. So this may be relevant to people who've been listening because we talked about preparing for winter back when we were recording in the fall. Were there things that you did to prepare that were not to prepare for COVID, but just for the season, that you were particularly grateful to have when you ended up getting sick?
Rachel: Yeah. I mean, I think some of the things that we did in the fall were preparing for the possibility of getting COVID. I think that that is one of the things that I was like, this is the thing we can do right now. So, you know, we had a thermometer, which was really good. We had DayQuil, we had Mucinex, we had tissues -- I specifically mentioned tissues in the Vice post that I had written about preparing, and that was one of the things that I bought. So it was really good to have those things handy and to not have to stress about how to get them. So I think that if people aren't sick, haven't gotten sick, and are still concerned about it, really do what you can to stock up here and there. It's a huge relief. You don't want to have to wait for things to arrive, particularly if you live somewhere where delivery isn't really possible, you don't want to be going into a CVS. You can't be, you simply can't be. And so it will just save you so much pain to have a well-stocked medicine cabinet, but it will also reduce the likelihood of transmitting COVID to other people, which is hugely important. So those things were really helpful. There are a few things that we didn't have that I wish we had. One of the things that was a huge relief was having a neti pot. It helps so much with the sinus symptoms, but we didn't have the distilled water that we needed for it, because you're supposed to use that because you don't want to get a brain amoeba, which can happen with tap water.
Sally: You sure don't.
Rachel: Yeah. So we had to wait to wait to order distilled water, and so that was one of those small things that was like, "Oh, we could have had that." We didn't think about it, just totally missed it. So that was one. We don't have very good drinking glasses. We have little ones from Ikea that aren't very good. We don't really have great water bottles. So we were having trouble staying hydrated. So we ordered, I'm showing you on screen the incredible--
Sally: That is a big-ass water bottle.
Rachel: It's really good. The thing that I need to be able to drink enough water is the kind of water bottle that you get in a hospital. So it's a giant plastic mug, basically, with a handle and then a lid and a bendy straw. And so those took a couple of days to arrive. When they arrived it was a huge relief, but again, it's something small that would have made a meaningful difference to have sooner. So, really grateful for the things we had, we were able to get the things we needed, but yeah, we both have talked about being low key or sometimes high key preppers. And I'm really glad for that right now.
Sally: Totally. Yeah, me too. I feel like once you got sick, there were some t's to cross and some i's to dot, but for the most part you had what you needed, which is huge.
Rachel: Definitely.
Sally: Kind of related, is there anything you wish you had done or known before getting COVID?
Rachel: I think one thing that we could have done is figure out where we would go get tested should we need to get tested. So I had, months ago, a coworker had mentioned a testing site near us that was not very busy and, you know, here's a good one to go to. So I had bookmarked it on Slack. I went and found it, but it was a private testing site. I had heard over the past few months that city sites were likely to get you faster results than a CityMD or a One Medical or any private sites. So I'm like, oh, the thing I did was saving this, but it actually wasn't really the thing we needed. So I wish that I had figured out where to get tested and specifically figured out what sites in Brooklyn were doing rapid testing, because I was under the impression that all of them were, and that wasn't the case. You have to go to specific ones to get rapid testing, and the site isn't super mobile friendly. When we were looking at like two o'clock in the morning on that Tuesday night, trying to figure out where to go closest to us, we didn't totally have the wherewithal to understand what is a rapid test and all that stuff. So I know a lot of people have been getting tested frequently throughout this and so they're probably aware of that stuff, but for me who hasn't, this is our first time getting tested because we hadn't done anything that warranted it. So that's one thing that I wish that we had done. And then you had texted, here's the nearest emergency room that seems good, which was helpful to have. But I think if you're going to look up where you might get tested, and you live in a big city, also figure out things like, where will I go if I need emergency care? That's worth figuring out early on. So yeah. Figure out testing. Also think about if you have a pet who you'd need somebody else to take care of, figure out who that person might be, and also use a few minutes to make a doc of how your pet needs to be taken care of so that you're not trying to explain, like, they get this medicine and they go out at this time and all that kind of stuff while you're sick. That's the kind of thing that is just good to have in case of an emergency. So I think figuring out logistical things a bit more would have been a good idea.
Sally: Yeah. It's great to have all that stuff. It's just a set it and forget it type situation and just have it and keep it, and then it's there when you need it.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: So the thing that I'm always really interested in, in general, always, but particularly with this, is what it's like emotionally and psychologically to go through a thing. And one of the things that you experience, which you can talk about if you want is just really intense fatigue, which seems to also be what some people experience when they get COVID. And to me, when I've been sick and gotten intense fatigue, to me that has been some of the most emotionally... when you feel well except for being devastatingly tired, there's something that I find very psychologically challenging about that. So, anyway, can you just, can you just talk about what it's been like, just emotionally, to get COVID and be sick?
Rachel: Yeah. I mean, it's been awful. I don't want to say that the emotional aspects are worse, but they're up there. It's a lot, and it's a lot to deal with when you're also sick. So I think the thing that is really difficult is that even if you have a mild case, it's not really clear to me if severe cases start out as mild in the first day or two and then take a turn, or if it comes on super strong, and that wasn't the kind of thing I was going to research while I was sick. But you can be like, right now my symptoms seem mild, but there's still that fear that things are going to take a turn at any minute. And so the feeling of not knowing what's going on in your body, and if it's going to turn against you at any minute is just so overwhelming and so stressful. And you know, my girlfriend and I were setting alarms for the middle of the night to wake up and check on each other, and that's not a thing that you have likely done with the flu or a cold. I'm guessing most people haven't. So it's a completely different thing. And you also are just sitting around so much that you have a lot of time to think about your own mortality and the reality that this could be it. And that's just... I don't know, I've just not had illness like that before. It was really awful. And it was also something that, because we were sick, I only had a limited amount of bandwidth for processing at the time. And so I'm finding now that I'm not as sick, that I'm recovering, that I have more time to process that. And it's like, I still haven't totally. I don't quite know what to make of it or where to put it. And it's this weird thing, because I don't want to say, "We had a really close call," or "We almost died." That doesn't feel quite right, because it's not possible to really know how close of a call we had. You know, it could be that we are young enough and healthy enough that even getting a more serious case would have been okay, even getting more viral load would have been okay. But I just don't know. And not knowing how I got it, I don't know how close we came to having more serious cases or getting really ill or dying. So I can't quite figure out how to characterize this feeling of having had it and, you know, having it sort of feels like this all or nothing thing where you cross a certain line, you have COVID, and then suddenly you're on this path and you don't know how bad it's going to be. So it's this weird experience of trying to figure out how to name and characterize what just happened, and I haven't really been able to figure that out yet. And so I think that's kind of where I still am, is processing that sense of how close of a call was this? And also realizing that if it didn't feel like a close call, it definitely felt like a heightened, very intense and serious situation. And that was really awful. That was one of my fears this whole time. I remember talking about this months ago and saying, even if you only get a mild case, aren't you going to spend those two weeks worried the whole time that you're going to die? I don't want that. And that is how it felt to me, that I just couldn't trust that it was a mild case. I still don't feel out of the woods yet for multiple reasons. It's really scary to have something that's unknown and that has been characterized for almost a year now of news stories of young people and healthy people just having it escalate and being gone. So I feel incredibly lucky and I think actually that's helped with the... I actually don't feel that angry about getting sick and there's this weird thing happening where it's like feeling incredibly unlucky and then also incredibly lucky at the same time. But I think I had a sense while I was sick, and I've been thinking about this a lot more this week, of, this is kind of a cliche when you're going through a hard time, but people will say, "Don't ask why me, ask why not me." And I think that's kind of where I landed and I'm still there. That it's like, yeah, I was safe, but that was a huge privilege for multiple reasons. And I didn't deserve to not get this any more than anyone else did, you know? I didn't deserve to get it, because no one does, so I feel incredibly grateful that it wasn't worse and it's not lost on me how having the right job and the right income at the right time allowed it to not be worse. And so I feel this overwhelming sense of a debt to, I don't know, the universe, to society, to other people, because I was able to spend ten months not getting sick. And when I got it, it wasn't that bad. And my girlfriend didn't have it-- her case was worse than mine, but ultimately we both appear to be okay. And so I just feel so, so grateful for that. And that has had a huge effect on how I process this, but it's also a very overwhelming feeling. I think ultimately I just feel very, very vulnerable and I still do, and I don't know how long it's going to take for that to go away.
Sally: Mm-hmm.
Rachel: And then in terms of the fatigue, I mean, I just talked for sixty seconds and I'm feeling a little, [loud exhale]. You know, I don't feel winded exactly, but I don't feel normal exactly either. I think, actually I could have mentioned this in the things that were a surprise to me, but I think I just had it in my head that this lasts for two weeks. And I don't know why I thought that, except that that's the amount of time you're supposed to be in isolation. And I just thought, two weeks and it runs its course. And I'm now hearing from people that it can be more like three weeks or four weeks to feel really back to normal. And that's definitely-- I mean, this is day twenty, twenty-one for me, I'm there and I'm not back to normal. I'm having to take it so easy and so slow. And I read this article the other night that we can link to in the show notes that basically was about post-COVID fatigue and how you need to take it really easy. And it says, don't do too many thinking activities, like reading emails or shopping planning. And it's just like, you don't think that reading emails necessarily is going to be a thing that drains the life out of you. But I, a couple of days ago, worked a normal day for the first time. I did a bunch of editing and then I did a few chores. And later that night I just felt terrible. And it doesn't totally feel like fatigue to me because I don't feel... tired isn't quite the right word. I'm not sleepy. And I don't feel... I don't know. I don't know that I would describe it as tired. I think that the word fatigue is a good catch-all for what I'm experiencing, but I just feel different. I just don't feel right. And I can't really figure out how to describe it because I don't feel like, oh, I just went for a run or worked out. It's not quite that either. It's just a feeling of, you know, my heart rate's a little bit elevated, I'm a little off, I'm not quite feeling right from the thing that I just did. And so it's been really challenging to slow down to the pace that I need to slow down to, because if you've been healthy your whole life, or you're able bodied, you're not really probably trained to slow down to the pace you need to go to. You're not used to it. And so it's been really... I'm constantly having to recalibrate what I'm doing and doing less than I think, and doing even less than that. And it's frustrating. I just want to get back to normal. And back to normal in this case means I want to be able to work a full day and take Chuck out and make dinner. It's not like I'm trying to go... like, working out is so far from my mind right now. I just want to do really basic things, and I don't know how long it's going to be. I hope by the end of next week that is happening, but it's really weird to not know.
Sally: Mm-hmm. Yeah. The article that you're talking about that we'll put in the show notes, I thought was a really, really good breakdown of what it means to really experience fatigue and what constitutes too much. And like you said, there were some surprising things in there. Like one of the tips was, don't spend a lot of time watching media, take breaks. And it's like, even laying down and watching a bunch of TV or a movie, it's stimulating and you're concentrating and you're paying attention. And it's interesting. Because to me, that's what you do when you're sick, you know? But I've also gotten very sick before and recovered, and during recovery noticed that yeah, even just picking up my phone to find the podcast I want to listen to is exhausting. And I think it kind of can't be overstated how intense the fatigue is and how, like you said, whatever you think you can do, do less than that, but then actually do less than that.
Rachel: Yeah, definitely. My girlfriend had mono, a pretty bad case, when she was in college. And she said that it's reminding her a bit of that, where it just took her a really long time, I think it was like a year after that, until she really felt back to herself. And it's not like you want to sleep all the time, it's just a wildly different experience of fatigue. So it remains to be seen, but I'm just trying my best to take it easy.
Sally: Yeah. So what was your mindset about riding out the rest of the pandemic before you got COVID and what is it now? Are they changed? Is it different?
Rachel: Yeah, it hasn't changed wildly. I think my mindset before was like, we're so close to the end, we can do this a little bit longer. Wouldn't it be a shame to get really sick right before there's a vaccine. And you know what? It is a fucking shame to get really sick right before there's a vaccine, that is frustrating and so ridiculous. It feels so silly at the end of the day. So I was committed to doing whatever I needed to do. We've made it so far already, and it felt like, okay. It was hard for me to even feel like the end was in sight, but I could sort of pull back and be like, objectively the end is in sight, even if I can't totally imagine it. So I still feel that way a bit, that, yeah, vaccines are coming. I just saw a couple days ago that Fauci was saying by April they're going to be widely available. And I simply can't conceive of that right now. I hear him, but I'm just like, really? We're in just such a weird place right now with the distribution that I find that hard to believe. So when I hear April, I'm like April? It's February. That's not that long. When I think about how fast that time went last year, we thought we were going to be back to work in two weeks or a month. If we're talking in terms of six, eight weeks, that's not long at all, that's remarkable. So, you know, I feel pretty committed to continuing to do what we've been doing, but then there's also a part of me that's like, what can I even do? Immunity is a big question mark. I think I'm in this position of, I had made peace with this and I was coping with being in for this long. I wasn't chomping at the bit to do a lot of things, and that's why I've been able to do this for as long as I had. So I'm still kind of in that place of, I don't really have a thing that I'm like, okay, well now that I've had it and am presumably okay for however long, 90 days or whatever we think it's going to be, this is the thing I want to go do. I didn't actually really have one of those things queued up, because it's hard to imagine doing those things in a world that's still unsafe. And so I think when we think about the end of this, we think about going back into a world that is safer versus you being one of the few people who can go do things. So I'm kind of still trying to figure out what comes next. I was talking about this in therapy, and as I was saying it to my therapist, he was giving me this look of like, you know the thing you want, I know the thing you want. And the thing I want is to get my hair done. That's the only thing I wanted this whole time. I'm not quite sure yet. I don't have enough information right now on the potential for us to get reinfected variants, all those things, to feel totally confident in that. Because me getting my hair done is going to be fairly labor intensive. My hairstylist comes to my house. She has been seeing people, so she will likely be willing to come, but we need to be able to do this in a way that everyone involved is safe. I'm hoping she will be able to get vaccinated soon for multiple reasons. But if that's the case that will change things, but all that to say, that's really the only thing I have my eye on. I had started to kind of go through the exercise of, okay, well, what will that entail? And then I had this thought yesterday where I was like, but if we're really seriously talking about vaccines in April, should I just wait another six or eight weeks? So I just don't know. I'm also having the sense of, if I really do have some level of immunity, that is a tremendous gift. How do I go use that? Who needs me right now in the world? I feel, again, a sense of debt that I want to give back in a meaningful way. And so I've signed up to volunteer with delivering hygiene kits in Brooklyn to people who need them, and I'm hoping to hear back soon, but I'm just kind of like, if it's true that I can be out in the world a little bit more safely than other people, please somebody help me use that in a way that can help other people. Because again, I just feel this tremendous sense of relief and gratitude, and I want to be able to do something meaningful with it. And so that's the other thing I'm trying to figure out.
Sally: Totally. So my last question for you is, what are some things friends can do to be supportive if a friend has COVID? What did you guys find most helpful?
Rachel: Everyone that we know is so great. When I told you that we were starting to tell people, you were like, "Oh, good. That means they'll start sending you things." And I hadn't even thought of that, but you were totally right. We got so much food, which was really, really welcome. I want to shoutout Spoonful of Comfort, which is what you sent us, which is genius. We'll link to it, but it's basically a service that allows you to send soup and cookies and bread in really cute packaging that is made to be put in the freezer, put in the fridge, and is super easy to warm up. So, loved that. We also got, people sent tea, which was really appreciated because it helped us stay hydrated, and ramen and bagels and just so many things that were great. So the food was really good. I would say if you're sending somebody food, think about things that'll keep for a couple of days because our appetites were just really all over the place. And so it was nice to have things that we didn't have to eat immediately. And then also if a bunch of people send you food, you go through that and then you need more food. So thinking about like, maybe be a few days late to it and send something later, or send something that'll keep, I think is really helpful. That was really wonderful. And then, you know, like you were checking in with us twice a day, which was totally fine because we talk so much, it made total sense. Other people I could kind of tell were making a conscious choice to every few days check in and ask how we were doing, and I thought that was really nice too. Everyone was just being sweet and thoughtful. Also, it was really helpful to know that I could ask you to research things if necessary, because again, I didn't want to accidentally wade into something that was going to give me a panic attack. So I think that offering to do that research for people and kind of filtering it so that they're not seeing the most scary stuff is great. And then also, never bombard people with quack cures and that kind of thing. That's the kind of thing that is not helpful. I think that you know your friends best, but send food, ask how you can be helpful, ask how they're feeling. Don't take it personally if they don't respond, they're probably just resting. And, you know, send them all the good vibes that you can.
Sally: Yeah. A thing that I don't do enough that I need to do more of is, instead of just checking in twice a day, I should be like, what level of check-in would you like? Because a lot of times, I know I'm sometimes going through something where it actually feels really oppressive and annoying when someone is texting me constantly. But like you said, you know, your friends best, you know what tone to strike, but I think definitely checking in about that is a really good call.
Rachel: Yeah, definitely. And I was thinking about the tip that you gave a few episodes ago, using Close Friends on Instagram to tell a bunch of people what's going on with you at once. If you're the person who's sick, think about doing something like that, or appointing one friend who can update everybody else so that you don't necessarily have to. Don't feel like you're not allowed to set boundaries or like you have to respond to every single text you're getting. If you're not up for it, you're not up for it, and that's completely fine, and everyone should understand that. So I think that you've got to kind of take control of your own health and destiny here and say to people-- or don't say it, but know that it's okay to feel it. And you can get back to them in a couple of weeks and just say, "Hey, sorry, I was really sick, I had COVID." I think the thing that's helpful about having something that everyone knows is a bad thing is that you don't have to say much more than "It's COVID" where people are like, got it. Say no more. They understand that this is serious.
Sally: Yeah. If there's ever a time to just leave people on read and having them figure it out, it's this.
Rachel: Yeah, exactly.
Sally: I think that covers all of my burning questions. Do you want to transition to a nice thing to end on and close this bad boy out?
Rachel: Let's do it.
Sally: Okay.
Rachel: Okay. My nice thing to end on is that we've been watching season two, which is the newest season of Drag Race UK. It is on WOW Presents Plus, which is a paid thing. You can probably do a free trial though, for the first month. You know I'm a big Drag Race fan, I know you are too. It's delightful. It's a different sort of spirit and vibe than the US version, and in the best way ever. It's probably more like an early season of the US version, it's a lot more homegrown, a lot more, just sort of chaotic good. The vibe is just really different and really delightful. I think I might even like it better than this current season of the US. So if you're a Drag Race fan, or even if you're not, Drag Race UK on WOW Presents Plus is very, very good and very delightful.
Sally: I'm excited to get into that. I feel like people are having a reaction of just unfettered delight about Drag Race UK.
Rachel: It's so delightful.
Sally: Yeah. That I don't see people having with other seasons. So it sounds awesome.
Rachel: Yeah. All right, what's yours? What's your nice thing to end on?
Sally: Okay, well, in the grand tradition of me recommending things like Instagram stories, i.e. things that everyone has been using for a really long time but they are totally novel to me, I would like to say that a very nice thing to end on has been listening to audiobooks from the library.
Rachel: Ooh, yeah.
Sally: There's this app called Libby, which I only recently realized is like library, Libby, it's like if the library had a nickname.
Rachel: [Laughs] Yup.
Sally: And it's what the Philadelphia public library uses, but I know that other libraries use other apps, but basically you just go through and you search for audiobooks and you can see what's available and you get them for a couple of weeks. And I've been trying to do more walking outside because I've been really, really, really sedentary, like shockingly sedentary, almost inert for a while. But I've sort of hit a wall with podcasts, ironically, a thing I'm saying on a podcast, where I can't find the thing I want to listen to at the time. And I'm always feeling like I should be reading more. So the audiobooks have really filled the void. And I have to say, listening to audiobooks narrated by the author is such a goddamn delight. It's like, it elevates the medium so much. Not that I think it's a medium that needs elevating, I'm totally here for audio books in every and all configuration. But listening to... I listened to Leah Remini, who is one of my heroes, read her memoir, which I can't remember the name of right now. And that was fucking amazing.
Rachel: I bet, yeah.
Sally: I listened to Damon Young, a Very Smart Brothas, reading his book of essays that's like his memoir, What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Blacker. That was fucking amazing. And both of these books are good in and of themselves, but listening to the person who wrote about their life, reading it, telling you about their life, is just so awesome. You just feel like you're hanging out with them and listening to their great story. So everyone get some audiobooks from your library and listen to them.
Rachel: A great recommendation, wonderful note to end on.
Sally: I feel good about it. Okay. So thank you for listening to this episode of Oh I Like That. If you have listened, but you haven't yet rated us and reviewed us, we would love it if you did.
Rachel: You can follow us on Twitter @ohilikethatpod and email us at ohilikethatpod@gmail.com. You can also find us on Twitter: I'm @the_rewm and Sally is @sallyt.
Sally: Oh I Like That is produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas. Amber Seger, who is @rocketorca on social media, designed our logo.