It’s still Pride month, so we’re still talking about queer stuff. This episode: Movies!
We decided to keep the Pride-themed conversation rolling, and this time around we discuss our favorite movies (and one episode of TV) that feature queer characters, queer love/romance, and queer stories. We cover ‘90s indie movies, sweet romcoms, cult hits, period dramas, and a lot more.
This episode was produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas Nguyen. Our logo was designed by Amber Seger (@rocketorca). Our theme music is by Tiny Music. MJ Brodie transcribed this episode. Follow us on Twitter @OhILikeThatPod.
Things we talked about:
Queer movies/things to watch
Queer miscellany
Sally: Oh, My Days of Mercy. It’s not good but it has great sex scenes.
Rachel: Welcome to Oh I Like That, a podcast about things we like and occasionally things we don't. I'm Rachel Wilkerson Miller.
Sally: And I'm Sally Tamarkin. Rachel.
Rachel: Sally. [Laughs]
Sally: What is the vibe this morning?
Rachel: The vibe is so tired.
Sally: [Laughs] Yeah. We're simultaneously both very, very sleepy.
Rachel: Yeah. What's the cause of your sleepy morning?
Sally: My cat Miles is a bit of an agent of chaos generally, but in particular, he has reverted to a behavior that he has not exhibited since we first adopted him a couple of years ago, which is, 3:00 AM is time to just come on upstairs to the bedroom and manically rub his head and just generally demand attention. And also at 5:00 AM. So he has two shifts.
Rachel: Nice, okay. [Laughs]
Sally: So he's been doing that quite a bit lately and I initially solved the problem by just, I would ignore him and he would eventually be like, "Well, I'm not getting what I want. I'm going to just stop coming up here at three in the morning." That has not worked at this time. So I'm feeling sort of sleep deprived in an ongoing way to the point where I'm feeling a little bit... it's hard to, for example, call up words. I wanted to say that in a different way, but I couldn't think of a better way to say it.
Rachel: Right [laughs]
Sally: But tell me about your tiredness. Well, similarly, I have a pet who is off schedule, so it seems like something's going on right now. I'm going to have to check with a, I feel like a pet astrologer might have some insight into what's going on right now, but Chuck has been recently waking up at between three and five in the morning and barking to be let out of his crate. And he is not a barker, period. So this started a couple of weeks ago after he had had a urinary tract infection, and so it seemed like maybe it was related to the stuff with that, like he'd gotten off schedule. We finally got it kind of back under control through a lot of trial and error after a lot of really sleepy mornings. And then this morning at 5:00 AM, he started it up again. And I'm looking at him now, he is curled up snoozing peacefully, and I'm just like, why now? You had the whole night to do this.
Sally: [Laughs] Not a care in the world. Uh-uh.
Rachel: So that is rude of him. And it's a really annoying thing to have happen on a Friday morning when we've got a good episode planned. I wanted to be a bit more energetic. Although I think we might be hitting that giddy point of tiredness that'll carry us through the episode.
Sally: Yeah.
Rachel: So, fingers crossed.
Sally: Yeah. We'll just be so punchy. It'll be fine. I have two things to say. One: Mercury in petrograde.
Rachel: Oh wow. [Laughs]
Sally: [Laughs] That's only funny for the reasons that we've already established. And the second thing I have to say is a buddy comedy, Chuck and Miles -- which already has a really nice ring to it.
Rachel: Yep.
Sally: And it's a dog and a cat, and I don't know, what are they doing? Are they driving cross country? Are they... I don't think it's a romcom. I think it's a...
Rachel: No. I think it's hijinks I think it's, yeah. They get caught up in a heist or something.
Sally: Yeah. They accidentally participate in the heist.
Rachel: Yeah, because they're up at three o'clock in the morning. And what happens at three o'clock in the morning?
Sally: Heists.
Rachel: Crime.
Sally: Amazing. I can't wait to kickstart this movie, please follow us on Kickstarter for updates.
Rachel: [Laughs]
Sally: So we are going to talk more about Pride. It's Pride month.
Rachel: It's still Pride month.
Sally: It's still Pride month. And you know, last time we did our sort of 'caution all ye who enter here' episode about Pride, and now we're doing the sort of queer stuff we love episode.
Rachel: Yeah. I think we got kind of the heavier stuff out of the way, and now we can just enjoy and talk about queer art and other queer things we love.
Sally: Heck yeah. Okay. So for our main segment, we're going to talk about movies.
Rachel: I'm going to kick it off with two movies that we both watched recently that we both have a lot to say about, and that feel related in some strange way. So the first is Showgirls, which is sort of... I can't totally explain its inclusion on this list because it's -- well, I will say that in the movie listing, when you look it up, it says "thriller, gay/lesbian", which is technically true.
Sally: [Laughs] I feel like thriller is also technically -- that's true technically.
Rachel: Right. Technically. So, it is debatable exactly how gay/lesbian this movie is. However, it is so campy, and so I actually think it makes sense if you sort of pretend all of the main characters are drag queens. Actually, that would probably make for a better movie. So to back up, I've been wanting to watch it because I've never seen it and it gets referenced a lot. And I just didn't know anything really about it, except that Elizabeth Berkley was in it. So we decided to watch it one Friday night. It is definitely the worst movie ever made, hands down. It's so bad. It's so bad that there's another documentary made about it called You Don't Know Me, which I highly recommend after watching it, that seeks to understand it, which is what you need after watching this movie. It is so over the top. So unhinged. And really, really high production value, absolutely garbage dialogue. We were watching it and it was like getting on a rollercoaster that goes really fast right out of the gate. It's so much, there was a point when my girlfriend was like, "We're only seven minutes into this movie."
Sally: I have to say the seven minute mark is definitely--
Rachel: There's something about it.
Sally: It's when everyone looks at their watch and is like, has this only been going on for seven minutes?
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: Because also in the documentary You Don't Know Me, they reference seven minutes in.
Rachel: It's really funny that that's--
Sally: Yeah. I texted you guys when I watched it, because you recommended it. I watched it and I kind of live texted. And when I was about seven minutes in, there's just a string of things that happen and you're like, how am I only seven-- how can they sustain this pace?
Rachel: [Laughs] For two hours?
Sally: But I'm here to tell you, they sustain the pace.
Rachel: Oh my gosh. So much happens. I don't want to give too much away. But there was a point, I don't know, 30 minutes in, where I was like, what is this movie about? Where are we going with this? It is just so bizarre. And the kind of core thing hinges on Elizabeth Berkley as Nomi, her dancing, which they want you to believe is the most incredible thing in the world, like she's some kind of savant. And I just kept being like, is this, are we supposed to think she's a good dancer? It reminded me a bit of the Chris Farley Chippendale sketch on SNL, except he's a better dancer. But it has that energy where he's just feeling himself and everybody's like, this is the most incredible thing I've ever seen in my life. That's how they're treating her. And it's like, this is not good dancing, but what do I know? But the movie is just outrageous. The dialogue is so bad. There's all these weird motifs. The way Elizabeth Berkley moves around, she sprints everywhere, limbs flailing. There's a lot of scenes that are intended to be horny that could not be further from that. There are also multiple times when my girlfriend and I just sort of spontaneously were like, I feel sick to my stomach. There's just something about this movie that is slightly nauseating. Again, I highly recommend it. I really think everyone should watch it. This is not to say don't watch it, it's just to say, if you're having these experiences while watching it, it's not you. Also, the thing that was killing me during the documentary about it is all the people who are kind of framing it as, "These critics just couldn't handle it. They couldn't handle how turned on they got watching this. It was too hot for them." And I'm like, that's not what it was. I'm sorry. It's just simply not. And now some people are trying to reframe it as, "This director knew exactly what he was doing, making this into -- it was supposed to be this way." And I'm like, no, he thought this was going to be an incredible, good movie. He was swinging for the fences with this and totally failed at it. There's no argument on that. And I'm sort of annoyed that they're trying to reframe it that way. But in any case, I highly recommend it. I just recently ordered a t-shirt with Gina Gershon's character Cristal Connors in Showgirls on the t-shirt, it's one of my Pride 2021 pieces of apparel. Gina Gershon is also in Bound, which we're going to talk about in a minute, which Sally introduced me to. But before we do, Sally, what are your thoughts on Showgirls?
Sally: Well, Showgirls... I'm really, really glad that you guys recommended it because it was such an experience to watch. It feels like an experience.
Rachel: It does.
Sally: When I was telling Andrea my partner about it, I was like, all you need to know is that it is from the demented mind of Paul Verhoeven, the director who does these really, you know, he directed Total Recall and Starship Troopers, which we just watched for the first time, which is amazing, but also so fucking over the top. RoboCop similarly. And I am not a cinephile, and so I don't want anyone to think I think that I am, but my one observation is that I feel like the movies that I've seen of Paul Verhoeven sit in this weird space of, is it really bad or is it really good? And also, is this intentional or is it not? And I have to say that Showgirls definitely departs for me from Total Recall and Starship Troopers in the sense that when you watch those movies, you're like, this is some really over the top shit, but that was obviously what was intended. With Showgirls, I do think that the over the topness is intended. I mean, there's no way Elizabeth Berkley would act the way she's acting unless someone was telling her to act that way. [Laughs]
Rachel: No, completely. Right, right, right.
Sally: But at the same time, I felt like when I was watching the documentary You Don't Know Me, I felt like there was definitely some historical revisionism going on around the extent to which Paul Verhoeven was aiming for satire. I mean, that is his thing. That is what he does. He does things in a huge campy way, it's gonzo, and in that is the satire, but I just don't think it really landed in Showgirls in the way it landed for me with other movies.
Rachel: It might be in part because Elizabeth Berkley maybe can't pull that off. I think every other actress in Hollywood turned this down. They went to Angelina Jolie and Charlize Theron, they went for the big, you know, the A-listers and none of them would do it, which I think makes sense. And so I do think maybe in somebody else's hands, it would have been different, but I think she is just... she gives a pretty similar performance to the iconic Saved by the Bell "I'm so excited" moment. That is what she's bringing to this movie. And that's not a good thing. That's not good acting. [Laughs] It doesn't really work.
Sally: Yeah. I mean, I feel slightly more oriented towards the people in the documentary than you do. I feel like there's something to what they're talking about, even though I don't fully buy it. So I think I'm a little bit more on the, this was trying to do something and it... I think it was trying to do something, but the point is--
Rachel: I can believe that. I can believe that. Yeah. Yeah.
Sally: It's unclear, but I think that's sort of part of the charm. And also this is a great time to transition talking about Gina Gershon, who is not queer-identified it seems, but plays queer characters so authentically and convincingly.
Rachel: [Laughs] And so often.
Sally: [Laughs] Right, and also so frequently that it's very hard to wrap one's mind around that. But yeah, this is a perfect time to talk about Bound, which stars Gina Gershon and Jennifer Tilly. And it came out in 1995, or 1996 I want to say.
Rachel: I think so. Let's just look it up.
Sally: Yeah, 1996. Yeah.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: So Bound was written and directed by the Wachowskis, and it was their first film. It was their debut film. It also has Joe Pantoliano, who is one of my favorite actors, Joey Pants. And it's very... I actually saw this in the theater. I remember. I guess I would have been, 1996, 15 or 16. And it's a noir, I would say. And I think that this is one of those movies that, it's very stylized. There are a lot of very specific choices being made. Because I remember that when I saw it when I was 16, I thought it was cheesy. And when I watched it as an adult, I was like, oh no, this is trying to be a noir movie. They hired a queer sex educator to choreograph the sex scenes, which are great. Great sex scenes.
Rachel: [Laughs] Uh-huh.
Sally: And the other thing about this that really left a mark on me is that when I was a teenager and in my early twenties, the big thing about being a queer woman -- in my world, I'm only speaking for my little orbit -- was the butch/femme dynamic. Who's butch and who's femme, what kind of a lesbian are you going to be? And this movie really leans into, but also I think subverts a lot of expectations around gender roles in queer relationships and butch and femme identities and stuff. And I really, really love it and appreciate it for those reasons. You recently watched it for the first time, Rachel, what did you think?
Rachel: I thought it was great. Within the first five minutes, I was like, I see what you're doing, I'm into it. It's really, really good. I wouldn't call it campy, it's a little bit to the left of campy, in a good way. I think noir is exactly it. When I saw that, I was like, I think I understand what Showgirls was trying to do now. Because again, they've got Gina Gershon is in both of these movies and they feel sort of of a kind, but one is just so well executed and the other is not. Bound is really fun. It is more of a thriller. Chris Meloni makes an appearance in it, so that's always a nice bonus.
Sally: That's right, I forgot about him.
Rachel: Yeah. Just wholly enjoyed it. I'm so glad you recommended it. It was a perfect followup to Showgirls. So yeah, such a good rec, highly recommended as, I mean, any viewing, Pride viewing, anytime viewing, queer viewing, straight viewing. It's just a good movie.
Sally: Yeah. It's just so, so good.
Rachel: Definitely.
Sally: I have a couple of other movies to mention, and I'm not sure if these are familiar to you, so you can weigh in as you can.
Rachel: I don't think I've seen all of these, so yeah. I'm excited to hear.
Sally: Okay. Okay. So, The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love. You're going to notice that a lot of my movies are from the mid 90s and late 90s, early 2000s, because that's when I was... first of all, that was kind of the indie movie boom, when indie movies kind of became a thing and everyone was like, "Indie movies are amazing. Parker Posey is in them."
Rachel: [Laughs] Man, discovering Parker Posey when I was in high school and feeling like I was the only one who knew who she was, was a big moment. I was at my high school, but not in the world.
Sally: No, but now when I see her in anything, it feels like a big moment.
Rachel: Yeah, totally.
Sally: Yeah. Unfortunately I don't think she's actually in any of the movies I'm about to talk about, but [laughs]. The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love came out in 1995 and it stars Laurel Holloman who plays Tina in The L Word.
Rachel: Okay.
Sally: And Nicole Ari Parker, who I don't think I've seen in other things. And it's about these two young women in high school. One is a real tomboy and from a working class background, she's been sort of disowned by her religious parents, and she lives with her queer aunt and her aunt's partner. And she falls in love with someone she goes to school with who's from a much more kind of refined background. And it's just about them. It's just about them meeting and falling in love and dealing with the shit with their families, which is not really about the fact -- for one of them it's kind of about the fact that she's dating another woman, but it's also about class and, you know, high school kids getting in trouble for breaking high school kid rules and stuff like that. And it's just really, really charming, and it has a lot of heart. And again, this is a movie from the mid 90s that had a $250,000 budget. So this is some low budget shit and it's not going to be polished and stuff like that, but it's so good. It's so, so, so good. And I highly recommend it. Speaking of not polished and so good is a movie called The Watermelon Woman, which came out in 1996. And I first saw this, I think in a women's studies class in college. It's written and directed by Cheryl Dunye. I'm not actually sure I'm saying her last name right. I think it was maybe her debut film, and I think that it's considered a pretty important movie in queer cinema. Again, really, really low budget. And the filmmaker plays herself, or she plays a version of herself.
Rachel: Okay.
Sally: And she's a black lesbian and she works in a video store and she's making a documentary about a black actress from the 1930s who goes uncredited in various movies or she's credited as the watermelon woman, and she plays the stereotypical mammy roles. And this movie is just the filmmaker, Cheryl, living her life. She has this awesome best friend that she works in the video store with, she starts dating this woman. It takes place in Philadelphia. You see her interact with her mother and throughout her, seeing kind of what's going on with her life, you also watch her try to understand the life of this black actress who was very prolific but didn't really get credited. And it's about race and sexuality and kind of class. I think if I was a film study student, I would also have more intelligent things to say about how this movie looks at the roles of black queer women in film and in filmmaking. Because you know, I was watching and I was like, I think this is probably very deep on that account, but I think you have to know a little bit more about filmmaking to fully get it. Anyway, the point is it's really, really worth watching. I think you can watch it on Amazon Prime. Yeah. The Watermelon Woman. Really, really good.
Rachel: That's a great rec. I haven't heard of either of these movies, so I'm excited to check them out.
Sally: I'm really bringing my 42 year old, came out in the mid nineties bona fides here. Okay. Saving Face is from 2004. I feel like this is also another classic of queer cinema. It was written and directed by Alice Wu, and the main character is Wilhelmina who goes by Wil. She is a surgeon, she's queer, and she's Chinese American. And the movie is kind of bilingual, it's in English and Mandarin. All the actors either spoke Mandarin or took intensive Mandarin classes in order to do the movie. So it's about Wil, who's this surgeon, and kind of re-encountering a friend from childhood named Vivian, who's a dancer. This is straight up a romcom, and it's also about Wil's relationship with her mother. And I won't really spoil what happens, but it's just, it's a delightful romcom and it's very rare to see a movie that focuses on queer people who aren't white. You know what I mean?
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: And this is very much about -- I think it's not autobiographical per se, but I think it is, from what I've read, Alice Wu the director sort of thinking about and exploring being Chinese-American and being queer and relationships with parents and stuff like that. And it's just, it's great. It's a romcom. I mean, it's not --
Rachel: What more can you want?
Sally: What more can you want? I feel like nowadays a lot of queer movies are very quiet and slow with people in period costumes reaching for each other.
Rachel: [Laughs]
Sally: And I long for the days of Saving Face and also The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love, which is also kind of a romcom and just light and delightful.
Rachel: Also, speaking of, I can't believe you didn't mention But I'm a Cheerleader.
Sally: You know, here's the thing. I love But I'm a Cheerleader. I mean, there are so many movies that I tried to really cull my lists.
Rachel: Mm, okay.
Sally: I love But I'm a Cheerleader so much, but I've talked about it a lot recently -- I went on this podcast called Cult Classic Callback, and I talked about it ad nauseum and I've recommended it to a zillion people.
Rachel: That's fair.
Sally: You know, so I just decided to skip over it, but it's really good. Everyone should watch it. Okay.
Rachel: Yeah, we should link to that episode so people can listen. It was top of my mind because we're actually going to watch it tonight. So yeah.
Sally: [Gasps] Have you seen it?
Rachel: I haven't watched it in a couple of years. Yeah, I've seen it. We watched it a couple of years ago and yeah, we wanted to have a movie night, so that's what we're watching and I'm excited for it.
Sally: I love that. Yeah. That's also kind of also a romcom, I guess, kind of sort of.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: Okay. I'm going to cheat a little bit. The next thing on my list is not a movie per se, it's an episode of television, but it is totally self-contained and I think functions as its own feature. You know, Rachel, a great love and obsession of mine is the episode of Black Mirror called San Junipero, which brings together two, actually three of my loves -- the 1980s and the aesthetics of the 1980s, queer love stories, and science fiction.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: I have a lot of merch from this one episode of the TV show Black Mirror. And actually, I had a really interesting, brief conversation over text with your girlfriend about whether or not this is a sad episode of TV or not. And it was really interesting because I hadn't really thought of it as anything but not sad. But it is, I would call it kind of a happy sadness, but I will also say the conversation I had about this episode with your girlfriend got me thinking a lot about why it would maybe hit me differently and hit her differently. And it just got me thinking a lot about how, when I was watching this episode, I felt like the cultural milieu and what was happening at least in my little orbit of the United States around queerness and around whether or not it was okay to be gay was so much more similar to what I experienced as a younger queer person that for me, I found something really cathartic in watching it, but it was really, it is also sad. So I don't know. Anyway, it's interesting to think about, and how this different media hits us all differently. Because I think that The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love and Saving Face and probably The Watermelon Woman will seem really dated in certain ways. But for me, they'll never feel dated because of how old I was when I watched them and because of what they reflect about what was going on in the world at that time. So anyway, just an interesting thing to think about when it comes to queer media.
Rachel: Also for anyone who doesn't watch Black Mirror, San Junipero -- every episode is completely contained. So you can just watch this episode without ever having watched anything else in Black Mirror. So if you haven't seen it, highly recommend it, it's a standalone episode that is absolutely worth watching.
Sally: Yeah. And it's also tonally pretty different than the rest of Black Mirror.
Rachel: Completely different.
Sally: Yeah. So if you've ever been like, that show's not for me, San Junipero might not fit into that understanding of what it's like.
Rachel: I would agree. Yeah.
Sally: Okay. So the last thing on my list is the movie All Over Me, which came out in 1997. And I remember renting this very sheepishly from Tommy K's, the video store in New Haven where I'm from. And this is a very, it's a teen drama is what it is. And it's about this sort of awkward, introverted, but very cool high school girl who's basically realizing she's queer. And the soundtrack has Ani Difranco and Sleater-Kinney and Babes in Toyland, it's all very indie and cool and punk rock. And I have to say that I'm recommending this without knowing if it holds up, because this is one of the movies that of all the movies on this list, I have not rewatched this recently, but I think that anyone who -- I don't know if this really is for any of our listeners, now that I'm saying it, but an indie, queer, coming of age movie, it takes place in New York City and has a very... it has almost a Kids vibe, that movie Kids, there's just a lot of teenagers doing things that for some reason in the 90s we were really interested in exploring teens doing. Maybe sort of dangerous, potentially self-destructive, but ultimately leading to self-discovery type of behaviors. Just a queer coming of age movie, again, low budget, indie. Wilson Cruz is in it. Oh, and Leisha Hailey who is also from The L Word and plays Alice, is also in it. Cole Hauser is in it, who you may recognize as playing a bad guy in a lot of movies, in 2 Fast 2 Furious and I think he's in American History X. You remember him as, "Oh, that guy."
Rachel: [Laughs]
Sally: It's good and fun, asterisk, I haven't watched it in a long time. We've gone through all of my weird indie low budget movies from the 90s, should we kind of shift into the modern era?
Rachel: Yeah, let's do it. So, one thing I wanted to talk about is the recent trend of period films where we've got, you know, two women gently touching the back of each other's hands after an hour and fifteen minutes of eyes, glances at each other. So in 2020, we got Portrait of a Lady on Fire, which is beautifully shot. I went to see it at the theater with my girlfriend, one of our last outings before the pandemic. It's a film, a capital F film. And it is really lovely and beautiful and it is slow and quiet, but I found it very compelling. It's also subtitled, so that really keeps your attention. There's also Ammonite with Kate Winslet and Saoirse Ronin, which came out last year, or maybe the beginning of this year -- it came out during the pandemic because we paid to watch it at home. It's like Portrait of a Lady on Fire, but now we're going to put it in the UK. Also it's slower, and I think Portrait of a Lady on Fire is a little bit better because it's... I don't know. I can't explain why, because they're very similar, but I think it's a little more beautiful, a little bit more fun. Enjoyed both of them, but. There is also The World to Come, which I haven't seen yet, but that is starring Vanessa Kirby, who is in The Crown, she plays Princess Margaret. And it feels very of a kind with these other movies. I guess I should also mention Brokeback Mountain, which is a slight departure from form, but I hadn't seen it since it came out in 2005 and we rewatched it probably last year, end of last year. It's so fucking beautiful. It's so visually lovely. So yeah, historical movies I always kind of go into them nervously because I'm always bracing for this being a bury your queers movie, which you never really know when you're getting into it. And for anyone listening who doesn't know what that means, it's basically the trope of, for years -- and I mean, it still happens -- the only way to allow queer media, queer representation in media, was to have one of them get killed off at the end. Especially, it was really prominent with pulp fiction that one of the characters had to die to justify it. So we can link out to a further explainer on that. But that's what I'm always bracing for. So I go into them nervously and find that I can't relax during them, but have been pleasantly surprised as of late in watching these movies.
Sally: Yeah. I was thinking, you know, as we've been talking about these movies, one of the things I want to do is say, don't watch this if you don't want a tragic, sad ending where people are kept apart because they're queer, but I don't want to spoil anything. But I think that there should be some sort of app that tells you, just without any spoilers, tells you if you're dealing with a bury your gays or just, this love story isn't going to work out because it takes place in the 19th century.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: Really quickly, I didn't put this on the list, but I want to say shoutout to Fingersmith, which is a period drama. It's a BBC, technically a miniseries, but I think of it as a movie in two or three parts. It's with Sally Hawkins and Imelda Staunton, and I love it. And we will talk in another episode about, it's based on a Sarah Waters novel and she writes really queer stuff, so we'll talk about that later. But I wanted to mention it because it is a period piece, but they do more than yearn, baby.
Rachel: [Laughs] Nice.
Sally: And it's just, it's also just really good. Definitely not as modern as the movies we're talking about now, but anyway, you should watch it.
Rachel: Yeah. I will also say before we wrap up on the historical queerness bit, there was a really funny recent SNL sketch that we will add in the show notes that was about this recent trope. And I went into it being like, this is going to be whatever, and then it was actually very funny and really hit on it. So if you've seen any of these movies, this is a delight that will make you laugh.
Sally: Totally. Okay. So next up, another queers in history selection is the movie Carol, which stars Cate Blanchett and Rooney Mara. And it is based on the novel The Price of Salt by Patricia Highsmith. And this came out in 2015 and again, I would say just really beautiful to look at.
Rachel: Sumptuous.
Sally: Sumptuous, yeah.
Rachel: Just so beautiful.
Sally: So super beautiful. I watched it again recently and I liked it even more. I think that Cate Blanchett is just doing something really interesting with the character Carol.
Rachel: Also Cate Blanchett is another one like Gina Gershon who plays these characters so authentically, so convincingly, I had a moment last year, I think after watching Ocean's 8 maybe, or Carol again, that I found out she's not gay, and I was just like, oh, huh. I just took it for granted, so that was news to me. I don't know if it's news to anyone else.
Sally: Yeah. She's someone who often shows up on the Every Lesbian & Their Fashion Instagram account, because I just feel like she's just been sort of accepted. This is happening.
Rachel: Right, yeah.
Sally: Anyway, I just think it's a really beautiful film and it captures a lot of things about the 1950s that seemed really sucked real bad.
Rachel: Mm-hmm. It's also a period piece that spends less time in the yearning phase and it moves along a little quicker to get to the fun parts. And so I appreciated that about it as well. It's also a Christmas movie, it's a beautiful Christmas movie.
Sally: Yeah, it's a Christmas movie.
Rachel: Also, the reason you watched it recently is because you put it on my calendar two years ago in the summer, and you put it on my calendar. We were going to watch it at the end of the year. And you put it in for January, a calendar event to discuss Carol.
Sally: I put it in years ago. I was like, you have to see this by 2019 or something like that.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: And so I just, four years into the future, put it on Rachel's calendar.
Rachel: What did you know about me that I didn't know at that point? [Laughs] Because I think it was before--
Sally: That's a really good -- holy shit, you're right!
Rachel: Yeah. Wow.
Sally: Oh my God. Look at that. Yeah, put this on your friends' calendars and see what happens in their lives.
Rachel: [Laughs] I love it. It's the new, the Carol clause, I don't know. It's a way to make queer magic happen.
Sally: I feel like I could spend a whole episode talking about just yearning and queer movies, but I won't. No one wants that. What's next, Rachel?
Rachel: Well, I think this is a good transition into the modern era and a queer movie that we don't recommend or didn't love, which is Happiest Season, which was on Hulu in November, December of 2020, which stars Kristen Stewart, and is a queer Christmas romcom. And it's not good. It's really disappointing. And it sucks. I was so mad after watching it.
Sally: Yeah. It makes me feel angry. I don't want this to be in the queer canon, which is too bad because it is directed by Clea DuVall who I love.
Rachel: She's wonderful.
Sally: She's wonderful. She's been in a lot of queer stuff, she's in But I'm a Cheerleader, and I have endless love and admiration for her in my heart, although this was a toughie. It also has Mackenzie Davis who was in San Junipero. Oh, and she was also in Terminator: Dark Fate, which was real fucking queer also.
Rachel: She's another one who plays these roles a lot.
Sally: Yeah.
Rachel: But has nothing to say.
Sally: It has Alison Brie, it has Aubrey Plaza, Mary Steenburgen, Daniel Levy. I mean, it has--
Rachel: Great cast.
Sally: Powerful, powerful cast, but, do you want to talk about how it was bad?
Rachel: It was bad because the plot -- this isn't spoiling anything -- is that the one character, is it Abby who's taking her home? I can't remember their names.
Sally: We'll never be able to remember.
Rachel: It doesn't matter. But the Mackenzie Davis character is taking Kristen Stewart home to meet Mackenzie's family for the holidays. And then on the way she's like, "By the way, I'm not out, they think you're my roommate." So, shitty setup and real hard to come back from that. And then throughout it just gets worse, just sort of in the way the Mackenzie Davis character treats the Kristen Stewart character and behaves. But then you have Aubrey Plaza who is just so great in this movie, come in. And you're like, okay, maybe she and Kristen Stewart are going to end up together, and this is the romcom. If you don't want this spoiled, fast forward twenty seconds. Okay. You think maybe Aubrey Plaza, you think that might be where it's going. They have a really cute date, they keep running into each other. That was the romcom we deserve, which is, these two people don't end up together, they both end up with people who are better for them, ultimately. That is not what happens. They end up engaged. It's so bizarre. And it's one of those movies where you're just like, I guess, because we are desperate for representation we'll take anything, even this. And it really bummed me out.
Sally: Well, I will add one thing, Mackenzie Davis' wig is so distractingly bad.
Rachel: [Laughs]
Sally: And I don't know how, but that is symbolic of how ill-fitting the whole entire movie is.
Rachel: Kristen Stewart is great in it though.
Sally: She's great. A lot of great individual performances for sure.
Rachel: Absolutely.
Sally: But just wretched in every way. Okay.
Rachel: Yep.
Sally: So that's one anti recommendation for Pride month.
Rachel: On a lighter and more fun note though, a modern one that I really recommend is the Steven Universe movie, which is so lovely. It's a musical, the animation is beautiful. It is both queer literally, and also in spirit and vibe, and the whole series is. It's based on an animated series. I will say, I hadn't seen the series before this. You don't need to, but it's just really beautiful queer characters and also really beautiful themes about community and acceptance and boundaries and friendship and finding your people and finding yourself. It's just a really lovely and wholesome film that will make your brain light up because of the way it's animated.
Sally: That's awesome. I can't wait to watch that. I've watched the show a couple of times and I've found it delightful, but also have felt it's not my thing. I haven't felt compelled to continue. So I think the movie is kind of the thing to do.
Rachel: I went back and watched some of the show and they're different, in part because I think the movie just has a much bigger budget. And so the animation is incredible compared to the show, but it's just deeper. It's just so much better. So I would say don't let your opinion of the show keep you from watching the movie.
Sally: Okay. That's good to know. Yeah.
Rachel: What have you got next?
Sally: I'm going to recommend Moonlight, which came out in 2016. Just another really, I have a real soft spot in my heart I'm realizing right now for queer coming of age movies. It is based on Tarell McCraney's play, which I think is autobiographical or semi-autobiographical. And it is just a really beautiful movie. I would call this also a capital F film. It's just a really beautiful movie. It follows this kid through his life. It starts out when he's little, maybe ten or something like that, and then follows him through being a teenager and then into adulthood. And it's kind of heartbreaking and also beautiful. And I remember seeing this in the theater and having that feeling of, I'm watching something really special. You know, it's just a really beautiful movie where you're just really with this kid as he tries to make sense of the world around him and tries to make sense of his place in the world around him and his sexuality. And if you want to have kind of a not light movie night, I would say check out Moonlight for sure. It's really beautiful.
Rachel: Nice. You know Sally, you mentioned coming of age movies, you might like The Half of It, which is a Netflix original from 2020.
Sally: Oooh, okay.
Rachel: That is just a queer girl coming of age movie.
Sally: I'm into it.
Rachel: It's just that. And it's not great art, but it's a nice one. I think you would be into it based on your interests. But also I recommend it to anyone who is a little younger and is maybe feeling like these 90s movies aren't for them. A 2020 film. And I think also on that note, Love, Simon is a very sweet romcom that is about teens, it's sweet. It's about a boy and it's very, I don't know. It's very gay male in the suburbs. I don't know. Kind of sanitized, I guess, but it's very charming as romcoms go and I liked it, and the side characters are great. I feel like they get more interior lives than they often do in anything. And one of the girls who was in it just recently came out. So that was nice.
Sally: Hey, okay!
Rachel: Yeah, love to see it. I really enjoyed her coming out post. She's 28, or she came out at 28, and is talking about how it's never too late and yeah, just loving that we get to claim her because she's awesome.
Sally: That rules. I want to say, just to bring things full circle, The Half of It is directed by Alice Wu who directed Saving Face.
Rachel: Ah, okay.
Sally: So, I love that. I love that Alice Wu is still making queer stuff.
Rachel: Yeah. This all makes perfect sense. So now I feel very strong in my recommendation for you personally, but also for anyone. It's nice that there's a good amount now that we can have some that are better than others and we can have some that we don't like. But this one's just good enough.
Sally: Yeah. I have to say, true inclusion is having really, really bad movies and really, really good movies and being able to be like, "That movie sucked, don't watch it, but here's a really good one."
Rachel: Yep. Absolutely. All right. Any others?
Sally: Just my last one, just a quick shoutout to Mosquita y Mari, which came out in 2012, another coming of age story about these two girls who just become best friends, but one of them... it's like, do they have crushes on each other or not? It's queer in the sense that that subtext is there, but it's more about I think something I relate to, which is having a friendship with another girl and being like, what is this? What are these feelings? How do I understand them? And it's just a sweet coming of age movie and I recommend it.
Rachel: Wonderful. Well, I think we have given everyone a lot of content to work with in terms of queer cinema for the rest of the year and beyond. So I think that's a pretty solid list.
Sally: And if you have any you want to add, please write in, let us know, ohilikethatpod@gmail.com. And in an upcoming episode we will be talking about more queer things.
Rachel: I love it. I'm so excited we're doing this.
Sally: Me too. We ended up, we thought we were going to do one Pride episode and maybe it's just going to be a month of Pride episodes, which I'm really into.
Rachel: I think that's completely reasonable. All right. Well that was a long one, but we've got to do one more thing. A nice thing to end on. So what do you have, Sally?
Sally: Well, I just want to say that it is the return of the kind of hangs that we would have before the pandemic, which is that me and my friend Lucas -- who also edits this podcast, hi Lucas.
Lucas: Hi there.
Sally: We met up -- well, I picked him up actually, in my car. We were in a small, enclosed, contained space together because we're both vaccinated.
Rachel: Wow.
Sally: I picked him up and we went to a game store in Philly, and then we decided to take a little walk to get coffee, and we popped into another store on our way. And it was the most lovely hang. It felt very much like a thing you would do before the pandemic, which is just spontaneously walk into stores and decide to go get an iced coffee and browse a store together. And it was just lovely and perfect, but also I feel like heralded similar hangs to come. And I've sort of been living off that energy ever since.
Rachel: Man. That's really nice. That's a good one.
Sally: It was delightful. What is your nice thing to end on?
Rachel: My nice thing to end on is that I am getting a manicure tomorrow, and then I'm doing Pride events all weekend.
Sally: Hell yeah.
Rachel: And I'm really excited. I think it's going to be a good one, we've got good weather coming, and I'm excited to get my nails done. I've got to pick a color, but I want it to be fun. Yeah. I don't know. This has been a great Pride month so far. I'm excited for the next few weekends.
Sally: Man, I am so excited to hear about your weekend. I'm excited to see what color you pick. I just feel like there's just a lot of good queer stuff coming both of our ways.
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely.
Sally: Okay. So thanks for listening to this episode of Oh I Like That. Please rate us and review us.
Rachel: You can also follow us on Twitter @ohilikethatpod or you can follow the two of us. I am @the_rewm and Sally is @sallyt. And if you want to shoot us an email it's ohilikethatpod@gmail.com
Sally: Oh I Like That is produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas. Amber Seger, who is @rocketorca on social media, designed our logo.