Get ready to get to know us because this episode is all Q&A with us, your hosts!
Now that we’re nine episodes in, it felt like a perfect time to answer some get-to-know-you questions so that you can learn a bit more about us. We talk about our first jobs, what we’re reading right now, how we like our eggs, and much more. Also, this is the episode where we prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the right icebreakers can be a lot of fun (when deployed properly).
This episode was produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas Nguyen. Our logo was designed by Amber Seger (@rocketorca). Our theme music is by Tiny Music. MJ Brodie transcribed this episode. Follow us on Twitter @OhILikeThatPod.
Things we talked about
Rachel: Welcome to Oh I Like That, a podcast about things we like and occasionally things we don't. I'm Rachel Wilkerson Miller.
Sally: And I am Sally Tamarkin. So Rachel, here we are a few days after the inauguration of our new president.
Rachel: Mm-hmm. What's the vibe?
Sally: The vibe is, new administration. The vibe is, I really like going to sleep and waking up in a reality where Trump is not our president.
Rachel: Me too. And beyond that, where he can't tweet.
Sally: That's a huge... that's huge. That's a really good point.
Rachel: I was not prepared for how nice it would be just to have him be muted, essentially. It's great. We don't have to hear about him, I don't have to know what he's doing or thinking or who he's feuding with today. He just is in his mansion by himself, I have to imagine he's struggling without Twitter and I'm not sorry for him. He lost those privileges and he got what was coming to him.
Sally: Yeah. It feels really good, you know, and for right now, what I'm sort of feeling is like that Black Mirror episode where you can be deleted from people's lives and you only see static when you look out at people. So I just, when I think of Trump, I only feel and see static. And of course, you know, this is all a bit of a mixed bag because, you know, we have a lot of work to do. And I think, even though Trump in many of our minds is just a big blob of static, he looms very large because of the energy that he managed to catalyze, the white supremacy and xenophobia and all that stuff. And so, you know, I feel elated that he is gone from the office of president, but he's not going to be gone-gone. And the things that he stirred up, or that were already stirred up that he helped with, are not gone. And so we have a lot of work ahead.
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. We still have Ted Cruz and all of Trump's supporters and so many other things that existed in this country long before Trump, and there's still a long way to go before they are eradicated. So yeah, I think my vibe is kind of, what comes next? How do we best harness our energy from the fall and even from early January into the Biden administration? Where do we begin? I'm excited because Vice launched a series, a package that I've been wanting to do since 2015 or 2016 called Because We Can, that is about basically civic engagement, local government, how to stay in the fight not just every four years or even every two years when there are midterms, but how to make this a part of your day-to-day life. So we launched that with four stories this week and then we'll continue to file to it throughout this year, and hopefully beyond that too. And it's a way for me... this is something I wanted to do for a while, but it's also a way to hold myself accountable, in editing these things I'm learning a lot and it's really exciting.
Sally: That's awesome. I can't wait to check that out. It is really exciting, and it's also a very important reminder for all of us that going back to 'normal,' quote unquote, is the context in which Trump rose to power. So we're not really doing that much better than we were a week ago when he was in office, we just... I think the terrain on which we have to make change is a little bit more favorable than it was when he was president, but not that favorable [laughs]. So yeah, so we have work to do. And I think for me, that's a good vibe, which is feeling good and also energized to keep going.
Rachel: Definitely. So for our main segment today, we are going to do essentially a getting to know you segment because we realized some of you may be coming to this not knowing either of us -- maybe you're coming from the Girls' Night I,n newsletter or somewhere else, or you might have followed one of us on social media, but don't know the other one. So we thought we've done a few episodes, now might be a good time to do an episode where you just get to know a little bit more about us and who we are. And we are going to do that via classic icebreaker questions.
Sally: Before we get into the questions themselves, let's just talk a little bit about icebreakers, because one thing that you may know if you know either of us, or you follow us online, or you've listened to this podcast, is that we both like to have grand unified theories of anything and everything. So if there's ever a thing we're going to do or talk about on the podcast, we're going to zoom out and talk about that thing from a macro view. So Rachel, will you start us off and just tell me where you are at regarding the entire concept of icebreakers?
Rachel: So I think that in general, I'm wary of icebreaker questions in a work setting, which is where you often see them, because I'm wary of forced fun at work. And I think that sometimes they can go well, but I don't know, it's tough. I think that the icebreaker questions at work fall somewhere in the same realm as fun facts at a work meeting as a way of introducing yourself, which I hate. I think we need to dismantle the fun fact industry, because it just is so unfortunate if you've never done anything interesting in your life and have nothing to share, which I think is most of us, I'm so jealous of people who have a solid fun fact, but icebreaker questions are hit or miss. I think to me, they're best deployed among people who already kind of know each other and kind of like each other, which is actually why I like doing them with friends. But we also did them in a Slack I was in, we would occasionally do them at the end of the day at like five o'clock when we were just kind of hanging out, having a good time. And that was actually a really good way to get to know each other and boost morale, because they were low stakes and fun, and it was optional, which is totally different than 'everyone goes around and answers this question,' which is not as fun to me.
Sally: Yeah. And I think doing it in that way actually facilitates the actual getting to know you process, which is ostensibly the purpose of icebreaker questions, but I feel like often doesn't actually result in people getting to know each other that much better because they're usually used in this weird context, like for team building, which... there is such a thing as a well-facilitated team building activity or session or whatever, for sure. But I feel like most of the team building experiences I've had are pretty shallow, pretty paint by number. And I feel like everyone goes into it already feeling sort of resentful and annoyed about what's going to happen. And I think for that reason, icebreaker questions kind of get a bad rap, but I think they can be really fun. And we're going to, we're going to put that to the test right now, right?
Rachel: Yeah, definitely. So these icebreakers come from a website called knowyourteam.com, which is some kind of management software. These are just from that company's blog: The 25 best icebreaker questions for team-building at work. So this is a list that I have kept in my pocket for a few years now, because this is the first list of icebreakers that I read that I was like, oh, these are actually pretty good and fun. So there's 25, we're not going to do all of them, but let's get started.
Sally: Let's do it. Okay. Let's just start at the beginning. Rachel, what was your first job?
Rachel: My first job was waiting tables at a Red Lobster in Saginaw, Michigan when I was, I think, 18, 18 and a half. Yeah. And I had never even eaten at a Red Lobster before, but it was a fine first job. I think everyone should wait tables at some point in their life, so I'm glad that I had that experience when I did. And it was exciting. I made cash and got my first bank account and it was like, okay, I'm doing this. I am a working woman now.
Sally: I love that. I agree. I think everyone should go to therapy and wait tables once in their lives, at least.
Rachel: Yeah. I agree. What was your first job?
Sally: My first job was when I was 15 and it was at this neighborhood general store slash... it had a pharmacy and then eventually an ice cream counter.
Rachel: Okay. So like an old fashioned kind of...
Sally: Yeah, exactly. It was kind of Pleasantville-style. So it was called Gilbert's and it was run by this horrible dictator-esque sort of dude, but it was really fun because everyone who worked there, we were all teens and it was very like, movie about teenagers at their first job, kind of. You know, we just had a bunch of fun and it was fun to learn how to use the lotto machine and sell people lottery tickets and get to know people's numbers. There was this guy who used to come in and always play two two two, and he would come in and be like, "Trip twos." And then, you know, you got to know people's numbers and their ice cream orders, we weren't allowed to work at the pharmacy. I'm pretty sure that I illegally sold alcohol, because I don't think you were allowed to sell alcohol to people if you were 15, but I certainly did. It was really fun. I think my wage was like $2.50 an hour.
Rachel: Wow.
Sally: Yeah. So, good times. Maybe it was $4.50, I don't remember. Anyway, Gilbert Pharmacy, New Haven, Connecticut. I don't know if it's still there. I hope it is, just because it's a site of conscience of my youth.
Rachel: That's very cute.
Sally: Yeah.
Rachel: Okay. Sally, have you ever met anyone famous?
Sally: Okay. I think the answer is yes, just kind of by default -- when you work at Buzzfeed, there are celebrities that come and go all the time. I met Ian Ziering, who was in 90210, and it was me and one other staff member that appreciated it, because a lot of people at Buzzfeed were much younger. And so I was freaking out and everyone else was like, who's that guy? He was there to promote Sharknado, he was there with Tara Reid, but I want to actually say that I've actually interacted in a substantive way with a famous person before. And that is that when I was in my early twenties, I was writing in wet concrete in the Village in New York City like the hooligan that I was.
Rachel: Wow.
Sally: And I heard a voice behind me say, "Don't do that." And I turned around and it was none other than my hero, Janeane Garofalo.
Rachel: Oh, wow. Wow. [Laughs]
Sally: Yeah. I grew up a really big comedy fan, I was really into stand up. And this was when Janeane Garofalo was a standup comedian. But the thing that's amazing about this is that I told my friend Katharine, who is my co-host on my previous podcast, The Struggle Bus. I told her this story and Katharine is a performer and a comedian, and so she knows Janeane Garofalo kind of tangentially. And she did a live version of her podcast -- this is like a three podcast story -- and she had Janeane Garofalo on the show and I was in the audience and she reminded Janeane Garofalo of this incident. And she remembered it.
Rachel: Oh, wow!
Sally: And then Katharine brought me up on stage and we had this conversation about it. And she apologized for-- she didn't yell at me, she apologized for being stern. And I was like, no, it was me. I was the asshole. And it was an amazing moment. I got to hug her. She smelled amazing.
Rachel: Wow. That's really nice.
Sally: Yeah. I actually will share a link to that in the show notes, because it's actually really fun to watch as Katharine recounts this story to Janeane Garofalo -- which at this point had been like 15 years before -- you see Janeane Garofalo thinking back and the moment where she remembers the incident. So anyway, it was really delightful. And like, my entire bucket list was completely done after that.
Rachel: Yeah. That's great.
Sally: What about you, Rachel? Have you ever met anyone famous?
Rachel: Yeah, I would say a lot of people came through Buzzfeed, so that was exciting. All of the stories I have are, they're not like this person learned my name really or anything meaningful like that, but I have technically met a few celebrities. So I'm going to give you, when I was thinking about this last night I was like, oh, this is an incredible Holy Trinity that I'm about to present you. So when I was 12, I met RuPaul.
Sally: [Gasps] Rachel!
Rachel: [Laughs] Yeah. Really amazing. Because also RuPaul was not as famous then and was doing a CD signing at Tower Records in Chicago where I was visiting my dad and so he took me, and so I have an autographed CD. I think my mom also has pictures of RuPaul signing the CD, maybe. I'm not a hundred percent sure about that, but I remember that blonde hair, that face. So that was like an incredible one, but also one that, no one in my hometown when I was in sixth grade knew who RuPaul was or cared. So that was one that only many years later kind of mattered to anyone but me, you know? Yeah, that was a really cool one at a very young age.
Sally: Yeah, that's a really good deep cut. I love the thing of meeting someone mega famous before they were mega famous. So was he in drag?
Rachel: Yes.
Sally: Oh, that's amazing.
Rachel: Yeah. I know my mom has the autographed CD still. Every six weeks I have the thought of, have I asked her to send that to me yet? And then I don't because I'm like, I think I already asked her and she sent me a photo she took of the CD, but she hasn't, I don't know. So I need to get it from her at some point.
Sally: Absolutely.
Rachel: The next time I see her, I'll have her bring it with her, hand carry it. So that's a really good one. The next one is Beyoncé.
Sally: [Gasps] Rachel!
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: What is happening right now?
Rachel: I know. So when I worked at Elle magazine, I went to the Beyoncé cover shoot because they sent a ton of fine jewelry and that involved coordinating guards to protect the jewelry. And sometimes they would just... very occasionally, but the times that it mattered, they would send me to help sort of coordinate on-set to make sure that everything was where it should be and to keep track of everything and to make sure it got where it needed to go at the end of the day. So Beyoncé, it was another one where like, this was 2007. Beyoncé was very famous, but not the mega superstar that she is now.
Sally: Right.
Rachel: So that was incredible. She was very, very quiet. I totally understand the Sasha Fierce alter ego after being around her. She barely spoke a word, she was so reserved, she kind of only talked very quietly to her hair and makeup people. She just was really, really quiet, but beautiful. So big in the best way ever, just tall, just a presence. It was really, really something.
Sally: I feel like if you are in the same room with Beyoncé at any point you have seven years of good luck. I think that's what happens.
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. The last one is Oprah.
Sally: Come on, Rachel. [Laughs]
Rachel: [Laughs]
Sally: You somehow.... if you had been like, you know, maybe not as much RuPaul, but if you had said, "Who are two absolute cultural icons that loom large in our imagination and will for generations to come," I would have said Oprah and Beyoncé.
Rachel: I know, just those two would be enough, but you add RuPaul and it's like, I'm set. So the Oprah Winfrey Show was shot in Chicago, which is where I grew up. My parents were at a taping of the show and I got to meet Oprah after the show. My mom has pictures of me with a big red lipstick kiss on my cheek. And I was little, I was like three, she autographed a photo for me that says, "Rachel, isn't being brown wonderful."
Sally: Oh my God, stop it, Rachel.
Rachel: I know. That's another thing that I need my mom to personally hand-carry the autographed picture with her the next time she comes to me so that I can frame it in my apartment, but I don't think we should put it in the mail, because it's totally priceless.
Sally: She has to put it in a briefcase and then handcuff herself to the briefcase, like in heist movies.
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. There's taking no chances with this.
Sally: Oh my God. That is amazing.
Rachel: Thank you. So, yeah. I'm set for life on celebrity encounters.
Sally: You really are. I have to say, when I tell my Janeane Garofalo story, even though I know she's not mega famous, to me it was such a special encounter. And I feel like, you know, of all the people in the room, I've had a really special celebrity encounter, but I'm just going to say... Oprah? Lipstick kiss and isn't being brown wonderful? Game, set, match. Well done.
Rachel: Sorry I had to do it to you.
Sally: No, I love it. I love it. That's incredible. Okay, next question. What are you reading right now?
Rachel: You know, to say that I'm reading anything would sort of be a lie. I have a lot of books on my Kindle and I have started many, but I haven't really engaged with them in at least two weeks. So I think I'm going to sort of punt this one and just say, in all honesty, I am still really struggling to complete a book.
Sally: Okay. But I just want to say in your defense, not that anyone needs to be defended about whether or not they're reading, you read more articles online than anyone I know -- and really substantive long analysis and critique and shit like that. So, I mean, I feel like you're doing a lot of reading, just maybe not like book-wise.
Rachel: I think that's true, and I appreciate that. I'm reading a lot of words, but not any books. So I don't feel like I'm totally letting my brain rot. I've also been listening to podcasts, substantive podcasts that are making me smarter. So I'm consuming smart information, but I couldn't give you a book that I have read in the past, maybe even month. I don't know. So. What about you?
Sally: Okay. So I am reading this book called The Lies of Locke Lamora, which is by an author named Scott Lynch. It takes place in a fantasy version of medieval Venice, and it's about, the main character is named Locke Lamora. And it's about him and his friends, and they do long cons and kind of heisty type things. It's one of my favorite books I've read in a while, which I decided 20 pages into it. I'm almost done with the first book, I think there are three or four. It's really delightful. A lot of fantasy books I have a hard time getting into, a lot of times because the way women are written and the way gender is dealt with is just so retrograde and bad and chauvinist and annoying and also just really unimaginative. But there isn't any of that, at least so far in this book. Like, any time there's a character introduced that is an interesting warrior or leader of government or whatever, they're just as likely to be a woman as they are to be a man, which I really appreciate. It's also just a really fun read and the world building, everything about the city that this book takes place in is just interesting. The criminal underworld is interesting, the system of governance is interesting. Anyway, if you're interested in fantasy-type novels, I highly highly recommend it. We'll link to it in the show notes. The other thing I'm reading is actually, I'm listening to the book Just Mercy, which is by Bryan Stevenson of the Equal Justice Initiative. Have you read this book, Rachel?
Rachel: No. I may have even bought it and haven't read it yet, but I'm very aware of it and it's been on my list for a while.
Sally: Yeah. It's been on my list for ages as well, and I was looking for something to listen to when I go on walks because I'm having a moment that I often have, which is... [laughs] I don't know why I'm saying this on a podcast, but I can't really find a podcast that's holding my attention. So I was looking through my library app and I saw that I could borrow Just Mercy. And he reads it and it's a really devastating, but also incredibly compelling book. And it's about, so Bryan Stevenson started this nonprofit called the Equal Justice Initiative and they provide legal representation for people who may be wrongly convicted, for people who have unfair trials, for people who can't afford representation. And it's kind of his origin story about how he got into this work. And he tells a bunch of stories about working with people who have been wrongly convicted and are on death row. People who have had really unfair trials and experiences in the legal system, because they're black. You can kind of quote-unquote 'know' all this stuff and also be shocked and devastated at everything that you learn. It's just really amazing, and you learn a lot of intricacies about how the legal system works for certain people and not others. I highly recommend it, and the audio book is great because you have the author reading about it and he's recounting all of these experiences. He tells these stories about visiting people on death row and sitting in the visitation rooms with them and talking about their case, or people who are on death row calling him and asking him for representation. And he's... the person who wrote about those things is narrating those experiences to you, and it makes it an even more intimate experience. So I highly recommend it: Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson. And I really recommend the audiobook.
Rachel: Great, that's a really good recommendation. And I need to re-up that on my list. And maybe since I'm in need of a new podcast right now and just finished Serial season three, which is all about Cleveland and the courthouse and the legal system there, and I think that this sounds like a really good followup to that.
Sally: Yeah. It's like a perfect companion.
Rachel: Yeah. Great. Hey Sally, if you could pick up a new skill in an instant, what would it be?
Sally: I am so glad you asked, because my answer I know immediately. Well, now I'm a little torn. Okay. So my answer is drawing, being really good at illustration. It's one of those things that people can do, and I feel like they must be able to do well because they've been given some sort of... there's been divine intervention and now they're able to draw. And of course, I know that you can work at it and get better, but it's one of those things that is so mystifying to me when people can do it well, that I assume that there's some otherworldly power that's responsible for it. I would love to be able to draw. I would also ,two other runners up, honorable mentions: I'd love to be able to sing. I famously can't carry a tune, no remediation thus far in my life has helped me get better at singing. And the other thing is sewing.
Rachel: Oh yeah, that's a good one.
Sally: And that's a thing I could learn, but I don't want to be able to do it enough to go through the trouble of learning it. I just want to be magically imbued with it. So sorry for cheating, but Rachel, what about you? If you could pick up a new skill in an instant, what would it be?
Rachel: So I'm a little bit torn, but both of my top answers are music related. So I think that the first one would be to be able to compose music, which to me is mind blowing. When I start to think about just making up music out of nowhere, I start to spin out and have an existential crisis because I'm so impressed by it.
Sally: Yeah, totally.
Rachel: And I also feel... not cheated, but my dad could compose music and was like fairly good at it-- extremely good at it, he wrote musicals, like wrote the play and then wrote music to go with them. And I'm just like, what the fuck? Why didn't I learn to do that? And I'm like, had I had piano lessons, could I now be composing music? Seems like no, but these are the questions I would like answered. So I think being able to compose music just seems so special, so incredible. But my runner up that is related is being able to sing, like you said, I would love to just be able to be a great singer. Good at karaoke, but knowing not to be annoying at karaoke. , because sometimes you can be a little too good for karaoke. So I'd like to be able to moderate my talent so that I'm not annoying to do karaoke with, but when push comes to shove, I can actually really belt it and impress everyone who knows me.
Sally: Man. Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. I mean, I also would love it. Composing music, I agree is a total, how is it even possible that people can do this type of skill? I know that when I listen to music, someone will be like, "Wow, that bassline," and I'm like, there's a bassline? It's like, all I can hear... I can hear the person singing and the main tune, I don't even know what to say. And I guess it's one of those things that if you practice, you can hear more of, but the point is, I want to be preternaturally gifted at these things.
Rachel: Exactly. Me too.
Sally: Rachel, have you seen any good movies lately that you'd recommend?
Rachel: You know, I don't think that I have. I watched Promising Young Woman last week and that was fine, but it wasn't great. I would say if you're interested in watching it, watch it, but it's not something I would wholeheartedly recommend. And I can't totally remember the last movie I watched before that. I think it was around Christmas, watching Christmas movies. So yeah, I don't actually have a great answer for this one. How about you?
Sally: Okay. Well let's just say really quickly, Promising Young Woman is the new Carey Mulligan movie, right?
Rachel: Yeah, it is.
Sally: Okay. That's the only thing I know about it, so I can't provide additional context. I also have to say, I haven't watched... the only thing I've watched lately that I've liked is Spy, which I've already talked about in this podcast.
Rachel: Right [laughs]
Sally: We recently rewatched it. We've been watching a lot of TV, so we haven't watched very many movies, and the only movies that we have watched I haven't liked, so. But I just want to reject the premise of the question and talk about a movie I didn't like really briefly. I do not recommend the movie The Catcher Was a Spy. I think that's what it's called. Yeah, The Catcher Was a Spy. It's a 2018 Paul Rudd movie.
Rachel: Oh.
Sally: He plays a spy. Now, if you know me, you know Paul Rudd and spy are very promising.
Rachel: Right. I was like, you're about to tell me that Paul Rudd can do wrong? Because that doesn't track.
Sally: I was similarly absolutely shocked. It's a movie based on a true story about this baseball player who basically joined the war effort in the forties by basically becoming a spy for the US government. And it's just a profoundly bad movie in every way. Paul Giamatti is in there doing a really bad accent, Guy Pearce is in there chewing the scenery, everything about it is just really bad. And after we watched it, we were like, okay so that was really bad, what do we think the Rotten Tomatoes score is? And I said 60% and Andrea said 62% -- and we checked and it was actually 32%.
Rachel: Oh wow.
Sally: Yeah. So everyone I know, I'm sorry. It's Paul Rudd and he's perfect and can do no wrong. But The Catcher Was a Spy, was... woof.
Rachel: Okay. Sally, have you been pleasantly surprised by anything lately?
Sally: You know, I was thinking last time I was out for a walk that I was pleasantly surprised by how many people who were also just alone out for a walk were wearing masks.
Rachel: Oh, that's nice.
Sally: Which, you know, I was similarly annoyed by the odd person I saw out who wasn't wearing a mask, but, you know, I live in a city. If you go out for a walk, you're going to pass by a lot of people. And I find it very frustrating when people are running by you, out for a run and not wearing a mask. But I think the last few times I've been out for a walk, the ratio of masked to maskless has been three to one, which I'll take! I find it favorable.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: Although, it feels like not enough, but with the bar as low as it is, I do consider it a pleasant surprise.
Rachel: That's pretty good.
Sally: What about you? Have you been pleasantly surprised by anything lately?
Rachel: Yeah. I was pleasantly surprised by the ease with which I was able to assemble the exercise bike that my girlfriend and I bought recently. So we bought this foldable home spin bike basically. And when I opened the instructions, the first thing I saw was a picture that had all like 85 parts labeled with their number and looked so overwhelming, to the point of, I was like, are you kidding me? This is awful. But then when I turned to the page, I realized that this is actually a really well-organized set up. That the parts, instead of just being all in one bag together are actually sort of in bubble packaging by step. So it's like step one, and it has all of the screws and washers that go with step one labeled and separated out from everything else. So you can open one portion at a time, which is really genius. And then the instructions were just clearly written by a person who cares about whether you can assemble this bike easily or not, which was such a relief because I was a little bit like, yeah, if I mess this up, this bike could collapse. And you know, if you listened to our safety episode, you know that I wouldn't want that to happen. So we managed to assemble this, or I managed to assemble this in an hour, which to me is perfect. And it was a little fussy, but they really make it as easy as it could possibly be. And the bike is great too, but I was just very pleasantly surprised by how thoughtful they were in writing these instructions.
Sally: I feel like there needs to be some sort of award for user-friendliness of assembly, and just little flourishes on things you buy that make them super user-friendly. And I feel like we should start that award. It's the Likeys. It's like when Oh I Like That recognizes that you've gone above and beyond in making your product actually usable. And I say this as someone who bought a rower and I had to assemble it, and it was basically the opposite of what you're describing.
Rachel: [Laughs] I remember you telling me about this.
Sally: It took years off my life. It was just a pile of hardware. There were pieces that I didn't need, I had to call customer service and I had to take pictures of what was going on and send them to them.
Rachel: Oh my God.
Sally: Yeah. So they're not getting a Likey, they're getting a Dislikey.
Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Hearing that, I'm like, it doesn't have to be this way.
Sally: It doesn't. It so doesn't.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: We can build a better world [laughs]. Rachel, what is the best advice you've ever heard?
Rachel: I return to advice that Rachel Sanders, who was our coworker at Buzzfeed, gave me several years ago. And the advice was, think small. And she said it kind of in the context of writing, but I think it applies to a lot of things, but she was basically saying to me that when I want to write about something, it's very easy for me to within 20 seconds sort of zoom out and have it ladder up into all these other things that matter to me and matter to the world and are things that I want to talk about. And she was like, just think a little smaller, you know. It wasn't 'focus a little bit more,' it was just like, 'think smaller.' You don't have to do the big thing every time. Sometimes you can do the smaller version of the thing. And I return to that advice a lot, and I think it really applies to just general living. Like, you don't have to go from not working out at all to working out five times a week. And in fact, you probably should not do that. You don't have to make every meal at home from scratch if you want to try to eat more vegetables. You can do all these small things that will make you feel better or will help you feel more accomplished or whatever. Any goal or any task becomes so much more manageable, so much more doable if you think small, and you'll actually get a lot of bang for your buck if you do it that way too.
Sally: Ah, I love that. That's such good advice.
Rachel: Yeah. What about you?
Sally: So I got this advice in my first job after college. I worked at, I guess it was a startup. This was in like 2001. And I was in charge of doing this big mailing, a huge mailing to a lot of recipients in a lot of pieces. It was like, you know, organize the envelopes and the things going in the envelopes. And it was a whole big thing. It took a lot of time, took a lot of effort and I really, really messed it up. And I can't remember exactly how I messed it up, but I messed it up in a way that caused the whole thing to have to be done over and just lose a lot of time, and also sent the wrong things to the wrong people. So as badly as I could have fucked it up, I fucked it up. And I was really scared of getting in trouble. My boss, Valerie, who I actually like, she's a friend, I love her, she's great. But at the time I was very freaked out about getting in trouble and what would happen. And she called me into her office and I was like, fuck. And she was like, you messed this up because you think you're incompetent.
Rachel: Interesting. Okay.
Sally: And I was like, what? She's not a mince words type of person, she's pretty frank. And I just sat there being like, huh? And she was like, you think that you're not good at your job and you don't know what you're doing, and so you make mistakes that kind of prove this theory you have and you need to stop thinking that way. It was very stern advice, it was very get your shit together yesterday type of advice, that at the time actually felt really harsh, but I come back to it all the time because I've really come to feel like there was a lot of wisdom in it. That there are a lot of times when I feel like I'm not good at something or I don't know how to do something, and then the effort I put in reflects that I feel that way about myself. And it's not one of those things where it's like, "If you just believe in yourself, you can do anything." It's not that, which I feel is sort of pat and meaningless. It's more like, you know, you'll sort of put in the effort that you think you kind of are destined to put in or something. And it has rung really true for me in the years since, and that was, you know, it was ages ago, this was like 20, many years ago. So yeah, I don't know if that was... yeah, I guess it was advice. And it's served me well ever since.
Rachel: All right, Sally, how do you like your eggs?
Sally: I love an over medium egg.
Rachel: Same!
Sally: Really?
Rachel: Yeah, I have the exact same answer.
Sally: Not too hard, not too runny.
Rachel: Mm-hmm. Runny enough to dip toast in, but that's it
Sally: That's it. That's what's up. I do like an omelet occasionally.
Rachel: Me too.
Sally: But that feels like more of a production.
Rachel: Yeah. I order omelets if I'm going out to breakfast.
Sally: Exactly.
Rachel: But at home, over medium every time.
Sally: Hard agree. Okay. Do you have a favorite charity you wish more people knew about?
Rachel: I think that my answer to this isn't a charity as much as it is a good deed, which I've talked about on the show before, and that's writing to people who are incarcerated. I've mentioned it on the show before, so I won't get too into it here. But if you are looking at the United States and mass incarceration and police brutality and you want to do something, writing to an incarcerated person is a very small way to have an impact. What about you?
Sally: I love that. Yeah, I also want to reframe this from charity and think of it more as mutual aid, which I feel like is a much better way to think about doing things for others and other people doing things for us. There are some community fridges where I live where people just stock them up. And if you need food, you just go and you help yourself. And you know, people put everything: produce and meat and dairy, and there's also space for canned goods and stuff like that. A lot more have been popping up since the pandemic started, and so many people are losing jobs and losing homes and stuff like that. So I definitely recommend seeing if there is a community fridge in your community. And then also if there's not, seeing how to start one
Rachel: I love that suggestion. There have been some that have popped up around us in the past year and it's great. So, yeah, that's a really good one.
Sally: Nice.
Rachel: All right, Sally, for our last question, do you have any phobias you'd like to break?
Sally: Yes.
Rachel: Okay.
Sally: And anyone who knows me knows that I am absolutely terrified of flying. In an airplane. Well, flying in anything really, except I guess a hot air balloon.
Rachel: Right. The one time. [Laughs]
Sally: The one time. I can do it heavily medicated, but I can't describe to you the life-ruining terror I feel about flying. This is a thing that I have worked on and been working on from every angle for years. And I think it's sort of like when you go to the dermatologist and they give you medication and they're like, "Your acne is going to get worse before it gets better." I think that that's kind of how it is with fear of flying, maybe, or maybe just for me, because once you start really confronting your fear and thinking about it, it actually becomes much more vivid and much more scary, because you're digging into it. So I have hope that somewhere around the corner -- that corner might be five to ten years away -- I'm going to get over this fear. Because I definitely would fly more and go to more places if I wasn't so scared, just because just the amount of pharmaceuticals required to get me on a plane are intense. Rachel, what about you? Do you have any phobias you'd like to break?
Rachel: You know, I'm not sure that I do. Because I think I have phobias that I tend to and I think are perfectly reasonable and rational and, you know... would I like to not be afraid of sharks? I guess, but I actually think I have a healthy fear of sharks because sharks are scary. So is all of the ocean. And I think-- I don't avoid the ocean, but I don't fuck with the ocean and not fucking with the ocean has served me perfectly well. So I don't think I have any fears or phobias that are a problem for me right now, and so I think I'm okay just tending to them as I see fit. And should I need to break them at some point, I will do that when the time comes, but for now I'm just chilling with my phobias.
Sally: I love that. Yeah. I mean, I feel like if you wanted to become an open water competitive swimmer, you would have to spend some time coping with shark phobia. But I don't know, I feel like having a phobia of sharks is actually the well-adjusted position.
Rachel: Right. I would argue, this is a correct response.
Sally: [Laughs] Same.
Rachel: Maybe not statistically, but I respect sharks and what they do, and you can have it, you can have the ocean. I don't need it. It's yours now.
Sally: I love that.
Rachel: A healthy fear of sharks.
Sally: Okay, well I feel like we've really gotten to know each other. I feel like we've broken the ice.
Rachel: We have, the ice is broken.
Sally: Now that it's been broken, let's talk about a nice thing to end on. So Rachel, what is your nice thing to end on?
Rachel: My nice thing to end on is the fact that my family members are getting vaccinated. So my aunt, who is an ICU nurse who has been working with COVID patients since last spring and has been on the front lines in Michigan, was the first to get vaccinated. She's already had both doses, which is such a huge relief. I've been so worried about her this whole time. What I wasn't expecting is that my mom and grandma, who are also in Michigan, were also able to get vaccinated. So they got their first doses I think last week at a drive-through clinic. I just thought it was going to be so long, particularly for my mom who's not that old, but she is a teacher, so she's an essential worker. And then my grandma is, I don't know what the age cut-off in Michigan is, but my grandma was old enough to qualify. So I was holding my breath the day of, thinking, "No way, this is going to happen." But they got their first dose, second dose in another week. And I'm so relieved.
Sally: Oh, that's amazing. God, it makes me so happy. Yeah. My nice thing to end on is also that my family members and loved ones are getting vaccinated. So my mom and dad are getting vaccinated, I think this weekend is their first dose. A friend of mine who's a doctor got vaccinated, a friend of mine who's a teacher got their first dose. So it just is, first of all, it's just starting to feel real. And second of all, knowing that the people you love are safer than they were and will be safer than they were is just such a good feeling, oh my God.
Rachel: It is. Yeah. I think that, you know, 2020 felt so dark and so scary. And 2021 also still feels very scary, but I'm sort of having this feeling of like, you know, if my family is getting vaccinated and your family is getting vaccinated, that means that people are getting vaccinated. So this is spreading, this is happening, it's rolling out, there's hope, there's... We have a long way to go in terms of case numbers, but the fact that people are starting to get vaccinated is really exciting. I'm still shocked that it's happening this fast, and I'm so relieved. So I think that's a really nice thing to end on.
Sally: Perfect. Thank you for listening to this episode of Oh I Like That. Please do us a favor, and if you are listening and enjoying the show, please rate us and review us wherever you're listening, because it really helps us.
Rachel: You can follow us on Twitter @ohilikethatpod and email us at ohilikethatpod@gmail.com. You can also follow the two of us. I'm @the_rewm and Sally is @sallyt.
Sally: Oh I Like That is produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas. Amber Seger, who is @rocketorca on social media, designed our logo.