It's time for Am I the Asshole?, gift-giving edition. Plus our first reader mailbag!
It’s still gift-giving season so we’re still talking about giving and receiving gifts. In this episode, we’re reading and discussing two recent gift-related posts from the Am I The Asshole? subreddit, and digging into how habits and values around gift-giving and receiving show up in different relationships. Then we do our first ever listener mailbag segment and read emails from people who have written in to share their own recommendations with us.
This episode was produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas Nguyen. Our logo was designed by Amber Seger (@rocketorca). Our theme music is by Tiny Music. MJ Brodie transcribed this episode. Follow us on Twitter @OhILikeThatPod.
Things we talked about
Rachel: Welcome to Oh I Like That, a podcast about things we like and occasionally things we don't. I'm Rachel Wilkerson Miller.
Sally: And I'm Sally Tamarkin. And let's get started with a vibe check. Rachel?
Rachel: Great.
Sally: Do you mind if I kick it off? Because I'm pretty excited.
Rachel: I would love if you did that. Go for it.
Sally: Okay. So the vibe here is snow day, because for once we're not recording the Friday before we release an episode, we're recording the day before we release an episode and here in Philadelphia, we're going to get a big old amount of snow. Allegedly. I don't really believe it until I see it due to meteorology being more of an art than a science. That seems like not an accurate statement, but I stand by it.
Rachel: [Laughs] I mean, as we've established, we both love and respect nature, but you're looking up at the sky and predicting things. I see why you said that.
Sally: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I'll believe it when I see it. However, one of the best parts about an impending snowstorm, if you're someone like me who loves the snowstorm, is the anticipation of it. You're just waiting, you know, you're going to wait to see those couple of flakes start falling and you get excited about getting all cozy and stuff like that. So we're supposed to get -- they were saying initially just an apocalyptic amount of snow. And I feel like the general vibe was frantic and stock up on all kinds of canned goods. But over the last couple of days it's sort of chilled out a little bit and now it just seems like it's going to be a goodly healthy snowfall of six-ish inches, which I feel is ideal because it's an amount that feels sufficiently wintry, but it's not so much that it actually does feel like a natural disaster.
Rachel: Right, yeah. I agree.
Sally: And also, even though I'm no longer attending any sort of school or in a situation where I wouldn't have to do work if it snowed, I still do associate big snowfalls with snow days and that's just the best feeling in the entire world. So the vibe is snow day. I'm really excited about it. It's supposed to start around one o'clock this afternoon, so I'm psyched.
Rachel: That's great. Yeah. We are also supposed to get snow. They're predicting possibly blizzard-like conditions, but also saying it could definitely not be that. And I've definitely been burned before by expecting a big snow and then nothing happened. So I think it's supposed to start a little later here, maybe around three, but I am eagerly waiting to see if we're going to get snow. If so, how much? I'm very excited as well.
Sally: Yeah, I'm going to throw this vibe check over to you in a second, but I just want to say I was tooling around on one of the many weather apps that I have on my phone.
Rachel: [Laughs] Right.
Sally: There was a tutorial about how to record the snowfall accurately so that you can then submit it to various weather services.
Rachel: Oh, interesting.
Sally: So I feel like as I sort of grow into my innate dadness, I can see myself getting involved with a ruler in the snow and some measurements and stuff like that. I don't think it's going to happen this year, but I see that happening starting in 2021.
Rachel: I love that for you, your own personal Almanac. I think that could be a really good hobby.
Sally: Right. New brand coming up.
Rachel: Yep.
Sally: So Rachel, what's the vibe? Tell me what's up with you.
Rachel: The vibe here is great. I am coming off a very successfully thrown at-home birthday party for two, which I wanted to share because we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, about the planning for this event, and I put some of your tips into action. So this was my girlfriend's birthday yesterday. She has the very unfortunate birth date of December 15th, which is a really, really rough day for a birthday, a rough month. We talked about this a little bit, Sally, I know that you also are in a similar position with your partner.
Sally: Yep. Andrea's birthday is December 22nd, so precisely seven days later. Terrible time to have a birthday. Really rough time to expect people to be around to celebrate with you or to think through gifts or parties or anything like that. And I just want to say, I feel so much solidarity with you because now you're in this boat and we've already been exchanging tips and tricks and it's been great for me. So yeah, it's very hard to know how to, when you have a partner like I have who's a birthday person, they want their birthday to feel really special -- and I'm that way too, so I don't say that in any kind of a shady way -- you want their birthday to feel special, but you have this built-in obstacle, which is that they've had decades of their birthday not feeling special.
Rachel: Right.
Sally: It always coincides with Christmas, and so I already feel like I have to kind of go above and beyond. And she also really loves Christmas, and so I want Christmas to be really special. And so I start to panic in like September of every single year and I never know if I'm getting enough stuff or if I'm making it special enough. It's not necessarily about, am I getting enough? It's like, is this going to be a special enough experience? And occasionally I'll get to mid-November and be like, I'm just going to give her $5,000 in cash.
Rachel: [Laughs]
Sally: Just let that be the thing.
Rachel: Yep. Put it in an envelope, slide it across the table, be done with it.
Sally: Here's a fat stack of bills, you have yourself a lovely birthday and Christmas.
Rachel: Yeah, I was feeling that very much this year and it falls at a weird time where people aren't around, they're partied out. It also comes up so quickly. I feel like it goes from December 2nd when you're like, wow, I have the whole month ahead of me, to December 15th. And then you're like, wow, it's basically New Year's now. And the whole month just goes so fast toward the end, but I'm really proud of what I pulled off. So I think I mentioned that the theme was going to be space cowboy, which is a great theme, but was not a great theme for a birthday party. It's just too big. You can't easily get bull things online. I got really overwhelmed and really stressed out. So I scrapped the theme and instead went with a music festival ish. I say ish, because I've never been to a music festival. I would never go to a music festival. So the theme was music, but the narrative of the day was a music festival. It was sort of silly, but I took your advice and used Canva to make a bunch of little printables. So I made a badge for the festival that had a little QR code on the back that didn't work, it was fake. I named it, the name of the festival had her name in it. I came up with a bunch of fake bands that were inside jokes between us that would make her laugh and put those on as the headliners. And then that gave me the idea of, Oh, I should make little parody albums with these inside jokes. So I made our band and a greatest hits album of the things that we say a lot. And the new Taylor Swift album came out last week, and so I did a parody of that with again, just kind of jokes we make, also kind of a parody of Taylor Swift albums as well. So I printed those out in the days leading up to it as kind of teasers. So that made it very fun.
Sally: Oh, that's so cute. My heart is expanding five times in size.
Rachel: It was great. It was so fun for me. I would love to just do song parodies and that is just so fun and funny to me. So I did that and then got decorations again, just typed, 'rockstar birthday cool teen' and saw what came up and just went for it. So that was really great. And the reason I went with this is because I had gotten her a record player and then a karaoke machine, because again, I was in that, "Is this going to be special enough? I'm panicking." So that tied it all together. And then I got her a bunch of records to go with the record player, so all her favorite albums. So that was part of it. But the thing that I'm really proud of is the playlist, which I was trying to figure out how can we make this feel like a communal thing when you can't see people? So I had the idea, I was actually inspired by an article I edited that Bear Bergman wrote, it was a gift ideas list. And he had suggested a group gift where everyone makes a little video for the person who you're giving it to. And then you end it with a Cameo, which I thought was a genius idea. Isn't that great?
Sally: Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel: And I was like, I'm not going to make our friends sing or do anything like that, so how can they contribute to this musical thing? And I was like, oh, a playlist. She loves making playlists. She loves music. So I emailed everyone and just said, this is what I'm doing, can you send me a song or two and then a little blurb about why you picked it. It can be a song that reminds you of her or a song that you know that she likes or a song that you think she would like... kind of just whatever. And everyone totally understood it, sent me great suggestions, so then the way that I did it was, well first I gave her a ticket for the album drop party, so that was the way I worked that into the day. And then I put the playlist on and I had printed out all of the name of the song followed by who recommended it and the little blurb that they wrote. So I put those all in a Manila envelope. And so each time a new song came on, I pulled it out a little further, so she could see who had picked the song. So it continued to be a surprise. And I'm really proud of that because it was a really lo-fi way to do a pandemic gift. But that also would just be nice anytime for any reason. I think a curated playlist is a great gift if it's done with thought and care. So yeah, I think those were the big hits. There were also the standard, you know, outfit changes, food, other activities. We watched David Byrne's American Utopia on HBO Max because that's a musical performance. So yeah, it was just a great day, top to bottom. I'm really, really thrilled by it. And she loved it too, which is, I'm talking about how much I loved it, but to be clear, she really loved it and it was really special.
Sally: It sounds absolutely inspired.
Rachel: Thank you.
Sally: And can you imagine what chumps we've all been these last many years, just going out to dinner and drinks?
Rachel: I know.
Sally: We waited for a pandemic to do all this really rad stuff for our loved one's birthdays.
Rachel: Yeah. It was so great. Highly recommend having a special day, transforming your space with little things and just going all out. It really did take us... it was really nice to create a different world for a day. I think that's just a really special thing regardless of the occasion, so highly recommend it.
Sally: I love that, and I can't wait to report to you what I'm going to do for my partner's birthday, which I can't do because she will probably listen to this episode before her birthday, but I will report back, but I'm really excited because now I have a ton more ideas and stuff like that.
Rachel: Wonderful.
Sally: So, good stuff.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: Okay, so that's actually a perfect segue to our first segment. Rachel, can you take it away?
Rachel: Yeah. So we're going to do a group chat segment this week, which we haven't done in a little while and it is inspired by some recent Am I The Asshole posts about gift giving specifically, which I think, given the response to our last episode about gift giving, it's a topic that people care about a lot, want to talk about a lot. And we spent so much time focusing on good gifts and how to be good at gifts that we thought it might be fun to talk about when things go horribly awry and how it feels to get a bad gift. So we're going to go through a couple of the recent Am I The Assholes that we're still thinking about.
Sally: Awesome. This first one we're going to talk about, it's actually since been deleted and we debated including it, but I think we had decided that was sort of instructive enough that we should still include it. So we will include a link to it in the show notes, but it is: Am I the asshole for telling my fiancé that I don't want any more of his handmade Christmas gifts? My fiancé and I have been together for over two years and we celebrated both Christmases together. The first year I bought him maybe $50 worth of presents, mostly stuff he'd hinted at wanting to buy. He gave me a fancy origami star with Merry Christmas written on it in Sharpie. We hadn't dated very long, so I didn't think twice about the whole thing. And honestly, the star was pretty cute. We hadn't actually discussed presents at all before that point, so it's not like I was expecting anything more. Last Christmas was a bit different. We did have the talk about presents and he directed me to his Amazon wishlist and told me to get him something off there. The problem was that everything on his wishlist is hugely expensive with the cheapest item being a few hundred dollars at least. I ended up getting him a Nintendo switch and he was really happy with that. In return, he presented me with what was basically a piece of laminated paper cut into the shape of a Christmas tree. While I tried to be tactful, a few weeks later I did bring up that I felt a bit disappointed with his gift. My fiancé seemed floored and reminded me how, quote "I love handmade gifts". That's true, and I've talked before about how I love getting a scarf from one of my friends every year, but there's a difference between a scarf and a piece of paper. I told him all this and he promised he'd think about it. Now we're in 2020 and my fiancé has been talking for months about how much he'd love a PS5 console for Christmas. I told him I'd try my best to find one, even though they're really hard to find at the moment. The next day I gave him a list of some things I'd like for Christmas, all around a hundred dollars. My fiancé thanked me, but turned down the list, telling me he was going to hand make my present himself again. When I told him I'd much rather have something off my list, he told me he'd already started making my present so it would have to wait until next year. Things have been really weird between us since then. I brought this up to my mother recently, and while she agreed that I had the right to be upset, I should appreciate my fiancé's handmade gifts because they're "made from the heart". From my perspective, it feels a lot more like he just doesn't care. Although I haven't managed to order him a PS5 yet, this whole situation is making me not want to even try. Am I the asshole for telling him to stop it with the handmade presents? Rachel?
Rachel: This is so egregious, I don't even know where to start. And I am mad that it's deleted. This is one of those where I just desperately, desperately want an update because I am dying to know what happened. I hope that they broke up. First of all, don't give him a PS5. Second of all, don't marry this person. They're engaged.
Sally: They're engaged.
Rachel: She's engaged to this person.
Sally: Till death do them part.
Rachel: That's just... I'm so mad. This is such horseshit on every level, but the thing that's annoying me so much is this "Well you said you like handmade gifts." We all know what that means, based on the fact that a laminated piece of paper is not a scarf. We know that one of those is a lot harder to make than the other is. There's also lots of handmade gifts that could be more thoughtful, even a baked good or cookies or something like that. This guy sucks so much, and setting aside the "Should I get him a PS5?" Just, why are you with somebody who is following quote-unquote 'the rules' of, "You said you like a handmade gift" and is to the letter, but not in the spirit at all. This is so petty and it's just like, why would you do that? It seems like more work to do this annoying thing than to just buy a single item that this person said that they want. It feels like an intentional snub in a way that's like, do you even like this person? Why would you do that? What is wrong with you?
Sally: Yeah.
Rachel: There's no sympathetic read of this, for this guy.
Sally: I agree with you. I agree with you. I hadn't actually gotten as far as thinking about following it to the letter but not the spirit of the handmade gift thing, but you're totally right. It's weird he's doing the just asking questions kind of thing.
Rachel: Yes. Which speaks to his character in a way that I'm like, why are you marrying this person?
Sally: Yeah. And this is definitely, I think, a common genre of Am I the Asshole posts, which is like, this one specific thing happened, do you think I'm the asshole? And what it really is, is a symptom of just a unbelievably bad problem in a relationship, you know? And I mean, the fact that also he's asking for a PS5, I don't know if people who aren't gamers are aware of this, but it's really, really, really hard to find a PS5 right now. There aren't enough of them available and scalpers have created bots that basically automagically buy them from websites when they come into stock. It's already asking a huge... I want a PS5, would never ask my partner to get me a PS5 because of the amount of work she would have to do. She would have to just basically subscribe to a bunch of updates and then spend a bunch of time on Walmart and Best Buy, refreshing the page to see if she could... it's ridiculous. I think it's a really intense thing to ask for, but also to ask for something like that and then give someone something so... like, if you're asking for... the handmade equivalent of a PS5 is a life-size sculpture. Like, you better be painting a ceiling-high portrait of your partner if that's the handmade gift that you can give someone or, you know, you're a jewelry maker, you've made a very nice piece of jewelry. So the asymmetricality there is just kind of mindblowing, but the other thing it was making me think a lot about, and actually the other Am I the Asshole that we'll talk about made me think about this too, is I just wonder... I think that it highlights the thing that you and I are interested about in gift giving, because the way that we give and receive gifts and think about giving and receiving gifts is how we think about the ways we're in relationship to other people. And I feel like when I read this question and also some of the other ones on Am I the Asshole, I think, this is a really good opportunity for you to talk with your partner about the culture of gift giving and receiving in your relationship. Like, when they said "he directed me to his Amazon wishlist", I was like, well, did you have a conversation about it? Did you sit down, and when he directed you there, are you cool with that? Are you cool with shopping off each other's wishlists? Do you get to direct him somewhere? Why did he get to direct you but now you're getting a handmade Christmas tree piece of paper? And I think it would be sort of awkward, but I think that having those conversations makes it so that you start to know that in your relationship... like, you know, for my Rihanna book disaster, the culture of gift giving in my relationship is that we swing for the fences and if it doesn't come together, then it's okay, you know what I mean?
Rachel: Yeah!
Sally: But there are some people I think where if they get a gift that they feel like is really not them it's really upsetting. If someone returns a gift, the person who gave it to them will be upset. There's just all these ins and outs, and I feel like it's really worth having these kinds of conversations with people you're exchanging gifts with, but particularly with your partner to just have an understanding of what each person's expectations and needs are.
Rachel: The thing that's so frustrating about this is, it seems like she was kind of trying to do that, and he's just bullshitting her and saying like, well, you said you liked handmade gifts. And it's like, okay, she's trying to do this thing that is awkward, and she's trying to be a little bit more vulnerable and express her needs, and he is totally blowing her off, which again, tells you that he's probably not a great partner in other ways. I just cannot believe that somebody who's doing this is also really thoughtful and caring because it is such a simple way to listen to a thing that a person is asking you to do. And it also doesn't sound like he's really volunteering any information about why he thinks about gift giving this way -- specifically giving, clearly not receiving -- but if you were sitting down and saying I think that the holidays are too commercial, and so I think it's really nice to do a handmade thing, or it's coming from a place of like sustainability or whatever, and I would love for you to do the same thing for me, but if you're not crafty, please just don't spend a lot of money. If he had a whole philosophy behind this, that would be different, but he's not offering anything except well, I just want a PS5 and I want to give you what I want to give you, so I don't really care what you want. And that is so disappointing. And again, I just don't know how you can be in a relationship with somebody who thinks so little of your needs and has no problem telling you that.
Sally: I totally agree. It's so hard to imagine that this guy is in other ways incredibly thoughtful and considerate and keeping her in mind in a way that makes her feel seen and all that shit.
Rachel: Yeah. I don't think in this one, she did much of the typical, "He's so great in XYZ ways, this is a one off." She didn't even say that. So again, I'm like, why are you with this person? Why are you marrying this person? What are you doing?
Sally: Yeah. And, you know, to highlight how great the Am I the Asshole community can be sometimes, every single person was like, you're not the asshole, this is fucking egregious. And then a bunch of people were like, give him a paper cutout of a PS5.
Rachel: Yeah. I mean, at the very least give him a handmade gift that involves equal effort as what he's been doing for you. Because her question was more about like, am I the asshole for not giving him a PS5? And it's like, definitely not the asshole for that, but also not the asshole for not giving him anything off his wishlist and just giving him a dozen cookies. That would also be fine. So the fact that she's kind of wondering, I don't know, maybe I shouldn't do this PS5 thing, it's like... that's not even the thing.
Sally: That's not the thing.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: She should definitely conserve her time, money, and energy for getting out of that relationship.
Rachel: Yeah. I agree. It's so disappointing. I feel really sad at the end of the day about this one.
Sally: Yeah. This is a real bummer. Do you want to move on to this other one? Because I think it has some interesting stuff going on and I think it's a little bit more nuanced. Okay, so. Am I the asshole for returning all the presents I got and buying my own because I'm tired of receiving what I feel are thoughtless gifts from everyone? I try not to be spoiled, but my whole life I haven't felt thought of in the gifts I receive. I never show it and always act thankful to be polite. The gifts I give others are always personalized if I haven't been asked for specific items. I listen and use their hobbies and interests to make sure they're a hit. One of my favorite things was the shot of euphoria when they opened their present and were speechless. Then it comes time for me to open gifts, and it's a generic set of headphones, much worse than the ones I own, in colors I hate; a face wash and candle set I can never use with sensitive skin and allergies; a mug with a weird meme on it that is no inside joke between us that won't fit in my cabinet with a matching set already inside. I'm tired of feeling like the coworker you don't know that you picked for office Secret Santa. I stopped hoping they finally listened or got me something from a list I specifically gave in case they couldn't be arsed to put thought and effort into it. I can't think of a gift I've received that wasn't donated or stuffed in a box in storage, yet every gift I've given others is still on display, used, talked about, or complimented when seen. Why don't I deserve that effort? My friends are so great in every other way. My dear husband loves me endlessly and there's no other area I feel we're lacking. So why don't they try and get me something from my interests? Why am I unwrapping a clearance tea set when I'm a coffee drinker? We all sent out lists again, weeks back, and my dear husband said he was already done with his shopping and excited to wrap my gifts. I was hopeful this time he got something from my list. While tidying, I found a stash with candy, a pair of cheap slippers in a pattern I'd never wear, a makeup travel bag with a tacky slogan 'slay all day on it' -- I despise quotes on anything and it's well-known -- and a pair of gloves. I just felt deflated. I felt sunken in on myself. I realized I'd never get the joy of opening a gift and being blown away by its thoughtfulness. I cracked. I told everyone I wasn't doing gifts this year and to return anything they got me because I didn't have the money and I wanted to be fair. It's true. I don't have the money to waste over a thousand dollars on personalized gifts for everyone just to feel disappointment. I canceled all my orders, returned all the items I got, and bought things off my own list using those funds. I wrapped them and put them under the tree to me, from me. Dear husband is hurt, friends are disappointed, family has told me how spoiled, entitled, and petulant I'm being. I think they're just mad they aren't going to get gifts from me this year that they boast about and post online and get tons of comments about how cool it is. This year I'm getting what I want, and going forward this may even be my tradition forever so I finally get things I like. But as Christmas gets closer, I'm starting to feel guilty and ashamed for what I've done. Am I the asshole? There's a couple points that they added a couple things to clear up some confusion that people were having in the comments. A couple of them are relevant, so I'll just read them really quick too. All I said to my family was that I wouldn't be participating in gift exchange this year due to my budget. I didn't mention that it's because I don't like their gifts. My own parents are the ones assuming that is why, because they have the largest track record for being the worst at gifts for me and have been called out on it. No one knows about the gifts I got myself or will see them, except my husband. Due to the pandemic, we won't be seeing family in person this year. While I did return everyone's gifts, that does exclude all my husband's. I usually get him quite a few, but I canceled about half of them. He;s still got five to seven and I made sure I didn't get myself more than I got him to unwrap. What a journey Rachel.
Rachel: It really is. What are your initial thoughts on this one?
Sally: So, okay. When I first read this, I was like, go original poster, burn it all to the ground, hashtag girl boss, you're crushing it. But then when I read it a few more times as we were preparing for the show, I noticed a couple of things that I felt like were... potentially made me curious about their own relationship to both gift giving and gift receiving. I tend to think that if you feel that every single person in your life is persecuting you in the exact same specific way, it makes me wonder if... just, I want to understand more about that perceived persecution.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: And also I think the way that they sort of frame themselves as a gift giver felt almost hyperbolic, you know? I give people the best gifts and people comment about them year-round and all this stuff. Which is not to say that... I guess I'm just pointing out that those on my second and third read of the question made me raise my eyebrows a little, and so that led to my main overall takeaway, which was kind of the takeaway I had when I initially read this, which is that it's important, I think, for people to be aware of and realize that giving gifts is something that we do for ourselves as much as if not sometimes more than for the recipient. And so I feel like, for that reason, it's really important to be aware of whether you and the person you're giving gifts to are aligned. And I think giving gifts, like getting excited about giving gifts, like when you were talking about everything you did for your girlfriend, it was adorable and great and delightful, and you got to experience all this joy from it. But when that is one-sided, it just can feel really bad. And the poster talked about one of my favorite things was the shot of euphoria when they opened their present and were speechless. I mean, if you experience euphoria when people open your gifts, it's probably worth your time to have a conversation with those people about the gifts they're giving you.
Rachel: Absolutely. And not to be rude, but I think it's pretty hard to give that many great gifts that you're leaving people speechless and floored, and you're doing such an awesome job all the time, so consistently. And not because I think that no one's capable of it, but just more that I don't know that the recipients in our lives have such interesting needs, ultimately. A lot of people just want really simple and straightforward things, and I think it can be really hard to do what this person is describing that consistently, that dramatically all the time. So I do think that there are a lot of mismatches throughout this, but one of them might also be their own perception of the gifts that they're giving. I'm willing to believe they give better gifts than they are receiving, but I do think that they are building these gifts up in their head as being so amazing. And it is so very clearly about them versus the recipient in a lot of ways, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is, like you said, really important to acknowledge that.
Sally: Totally. And we talked about this in our last episode, but there are some people who just don't care that much about giving and receiving gifts. And so it can be sort of awkward when someone who puts a lot of thought into gift giving gives you something amazing, and you're kind of a person who shows your affection and love and thoughtfulness in other ways, not in gifts, you know?
Rachel: Right.
Sally: That misalignment is just really, really real. However, I will say, I love that faced with the situation of having another really disappointing holiday season, this person was like, you know what? I'm not going to do that. I'm going to return all this shit, I'm going to tell them I don't want to exchange gifts and I'm just going to get myself stuff I want. I think actually a lot of bad gift vibes would be resolved if more people kind of blew it all up in that way.
Rachel: I agree. I think the fact that the poster is willing to say, to some degree this is a me problem so I'm not going to participate anymore, is great. I think more people should do that. It sounds like that's not exactly how it came across. I know that the edit is saying, I didn't tell them why I didn't want to exchange gifts, they just figured it out. Which makes me wonder what exactly has happened in past years, how exactly this came across. Because I don't think that people would just assume that was the case if you had never communicated your disappointment to them. And it doesn't mean that you were wrong to communicate your disappointment to them, but I do feel like there's a little bit of something missing from this one. And the fact that your family is calling you a petulant brat for saying you simply don't have the budget for gifts this year. It makes me think that there's a little bit more that you're communicating to them that you maybe are not aware of, or you're not admitting here. I don't know. I don't know what that thing is, but it does make me kind of wonder how they got there so quickly.
Sally: Totally. Yeah, no, I feel the same way. And I do think that there are people who have sort of gift-related persecution complexes. They just feel like they're consistently not being seen like this person feels. What they did, I feel like is a really good pulling the emergency brake kind of thing. I feel like it's not a good thoughtful long-term solution to what sounds like a pretty intense mismatch.
Rachel: Right.
Sally: But it's a good, like, make it stop right away thing. But of course I think that also is obviously coming with a goodly amount of fallout already.
Rachel: Right. I agree. The other thing that I'm wondering about that gave me pause, like you said, if somebody has a, I'm being persecuted by everyone in my life in the exact same way, that sort of a question mark. I would have been more receptive to the person's complaint if it were their in-laws and their husband, because that tells me, oh, all these people are coming from the same family, so they likely have similar gifting philosophies, or the husband is aligned with his parents so if he's sort of defending them and giving me shitty gifts, but the fact that it's the poster's parents and the husband is interesting because it's like, these are totally different units that seem to have the exact same belief, which is giving people really shitty gifts is fine. And to be fair, all the gifts they're describing don't sound great. I think that office Secret Santa is a really good way of putting it, those headphones that are just totally generic that they have at the checkout line at Cole's, like, yeah, I can see how that would feel bad to get that from your parents and your husband. I think separating the gifts you can expect from your parents and the gifts you can expect from your husband is probably a good idea, but yeah, these all sound kind of shitty, but I'm also just like, it is interesting that everyone in this person's life, because they also mentioned their friends, everybody is getting you really terrible gifts. That is surprising to me. And so I have some questions.
Sally: Yeah. And they're all getting gifts that are terrible in the exact same way.
Rachel: Right.
Sally: You know, this is the kind of thing that, so I used to host a podcast called The Struggle Bus and people would write in and ask us for advice. And this kind of reminds me of some of the letters that we would get where people would be like, here's the problem I'm having. I'm going to describe it. Can you help me? And as the people who weren't involved in the situation and were just reading the letter from an outside objective standpoint, oftentimes what the person identifies as the problem is actually just a symptom of other things that are going on. And if someone had written this into The Struggle Bus, the advice I would be giving is, there's other stuff going on here. It's not just about... you just have happened to make friends with all of these people who are objectively, uncommonly bad gift givers in the exact same way? You gotta dig in a little bit there.
Rachel: Yeah. The other question I have is with the spouse, again, that's where you should probably start working through this. Obviously the gifts you get from your parents are important and it can be really contentious if you have siblings and they're getting different gifts and things like that. But I just feel like when you're an adult, the gifts that your parents give you are not the most important thing in the world. And that is probably based to some degree on my relationship with my family, but I'm just kind of like, I don't know, what can we really expect from our parents when we're adults in terms of Christmas or holiday gifts. So I don't know. That to me is not the main thing. But your spouse, there's who you should probably be starting with. And what is the person's values? If you are this good at gift giving, if this is your high that you're chasing every year, every holiday and you married somebody who gives you garbage gifts from the office free table? That feels strange to me. And I'm not, I don't know. I'm just kind of like, how did you end up here? What did you think, is this a change? Did they used to give you really good gifts and now they don't? Because we definitely read some questions like that on Reddit in the past couple of months. Is it that they never cared and you overlooked it? Do they not care in other ways? Is this just not their thing? It's very unclear what's going on with the spouse, and that's another one where I just want more information.
Sally: Yeah, absolutely. I want so much more information. I wish Am I the Asshole was more of like, that the original poster was required to come back and answer questions so that we really get into it. There is a comment on this that I thought was interesting that I wanted to highlight, which is someone just talking about how they and their significant other started a tradition of establishing a Christmas budget, where they get to spend a certain amount on themselves for whatever they want. And I thought that that was like a cool creative way to get around... I don't think it's a good way for the OP to get around their situation because they need to be having courageous conversations with their spouse and actually also their parents and friends. But the thing of being overwhelmed at Christmas with how to exchange gifts with everyone and make them all feel meaningful. And it reminded me of this thing that my friend Shane told me about that he does with his wife, which I thought was extremely cute, which is that they exchange gifts at Christmas, but they each buy themselves a gift. So Shane buys himself a gift, his wife buys herself a gift. They wrap the gifts they got themselves. And then the surprise is... And then they sort of frame it as oh, this is what you got me, even though they got it for themselves. And so then they try to guess what they got the other person. And I really liked this because they started doing it because they have both of their birthdays, their anniversary, Christmas, and also a bunch of in-law birthdays, and also now their kid's birthday, basically all during the holiday season. And so it's a guaranteed win. Each of them are definitely going to get the thing they want. And I feel like maybe this is actually a better thing for the first Am I the Asshole poster. I mean, they need to break up with their fiancé, but when they're in their next relationship they can try it. But I think it's like, when your gift issues aren't so about your deeply broken relationships, they really are about solving the gift giving, I think these kinds of strategies are really good because I think it's also totally a legit thing that some people put a lot of thought into it and a lot of effort into it and just don't really hit the mark, but it's not for lack of trying, it's not for lack of wanting to, and so I feel like not everyone has to be a sort of next level, transcendently uniquely on-point gift giver. There are ways to work with people's limitations.
Rachel: I agree. I think that strategies like this are great. I see them on Reddit or on the comments of Lifehacker on Twitter or wherever a lot. I think they only work when the relationship is in a good place, and when you've had the hard conversation about love languages and why you feel this way, and you come to an understanding. But if you haven't had that conversation or one person is feeling a little bit bullied into agreeing to go with a strategy like this, but they are really disappointed about it, it's just going to lead to resentment in the long run and it's not going to work. So I love when I hear these stories. I love hearing how people get creative, but I just feel like, in the case of the original poster and maybe even this one, yeah, I think there's so much more going on here. And there's so much to address that it's not about the gifts by any means.
Sally: No, it's totally true. I think that was my... I had that idea after I read it for the first time. And then after a couple more times I was like, ooh, this is going to go much deeper. So probably both of these posters should think deeply about their relationships.
Rachel: I think so too. I hope they're all... hope they're having a good day. I hope they have a good holiday.
Sally: Exciting time, Rachel, we're going to do our first ever mailbag segment.
Rachel: I'm so excited. I love to get mail.
Sally: I know, I'm so psyched. As a reminder, you can email us at ohilikethatpod@gmail.com and we definitely want to hear from you. If you have one sentence worth of things to say to us or several paragraphs, please write in. This first one, the subject line is 'Finally a good giver'. "Hi, y'all. I just wanted to thank you for the gift guide episode. I am historically a terrible gift giver, which is amplified by the fact that my best friends are amazing gift givers. Christmas is my favorite time of year, but I get so stressed about gifts that it ruins the whole month. I've read gift guides, which are fun, but ultimately don't actually help me pick stuff for other people. I put on your podcast, and it was like whatever mental block I have around gift giving was lifted. I thought of ideas for everyone on my list, and I actually bought them on time instead of frantically wandering a Barnes and Noble at the last minute. Love the show, and can't wait to see what the next episode holds."
Rachel: That is lovely. I feel so warm inside after hearing that. And also I feel like this person is kind of the family member of that second Reddit poster who owns that they're not great at giving gifts, is trying their best, and feels really self-conscious about it. So that just kind of warms my heart to hear it from the other side that yeah, people recognize when they're not necessarily good at something and are trying to do better. And sometimes you just need a little help.
Sally: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think there's really something to the fact that the entire winter gift exchange season can be so stressful that it really does just turn off a switch in your brain where you're able to think creatively and also be organized in an administrative way, which I feel like is also a huge part of it.
Rachel: A huge part of it, yeah. I agree completely. And especially this year when it was like, we had to start shopping earlier and you have to think about how you're getting everything to people. It is very overwhelming.
Sally: Exactly.
Rachel: Okay. I'll take the next one. Subject 'Gift guides'. "Hi Rachel and Sally, your latest episode on gift guides is great. It gave me some much-needed inspiration for coworkers and some neighborhood friends. One of my best gift ideas I came up with this year. Maybe it's well-known and I'm late to the game, but here's the gift. I bought the Dishoom cookbook for my best friend who loves the restaurant and loves to cook. Since it's Indian food, I'm also going to buy her spices and other hard to find products listed in the ingredient section of the book. I'm not sure why I never thought of this before -- every cookbook has a pantry or ingredient section, and unless you're giving to an actual chef, the receiver probably does not have all of the staple ingredients. It ensures that the book can be used immediately. Another gift I love is a signed book. One year, a boyfriend of mine was able to get a personalized message and signature from both Angela Davis and bell hooks for me. Even better was that he was able to get bell hooks to sign my personal copy of Feminism Is for Everybody that had all of my notes in it. It's still the best gift I have ever received, and while it may not be possible to track down the author for a personalized message, I still think a signed book is a lovely touch. Thanks for sharing your gifting process, and I look forward to more episodes. Happy holidays."
Sally: I definitely want to get into a secret Santa group with this person.
Rachel: Yeah, I think so too. So I have to say one of the things I loved about this is that I got a bunch of different messages about the Dishoom cookbook, which I had put on my blog's gift guide, which my girlfriend had recommended because she went to the restaurant in London in January of this year and loved it, and then also discovered there was a cookbook this year. And so I'm hearing people connect with this cookbook in different ways, so I just thought it was super interesting that this person also was excited about this cookbook this year. But I also thought that the pantry ingredients section idea was just genius. I love a pairing of a food gift with something else, or a way to use the thing immediately. And this is such a clever and creative thing to do to dress up a gift that is already really thoughtful if the person loves this cookbook, but if it's a more standard cookbook, it's such a great way to elevate it a tiny bit. And what a great idea. I love it.
Sally: I do too. I love it a lot. I love the idea of getting a signed book also. I think that's a really lovely thing. And I also think, you know, I think books are great gifts and they don't need any additional foofery to be awesome. But I understand that it can sometimes feel like I just gave them a book, is it personal enough, whatever. And doing a thing like buying the ingredients or buying a signed book, I think is just a nice little way to make the gift of a book just seem a little bit more special.
Rachel: Yeah, I think it's so great. And so often you can get signed books through independent bookstores, which is another really lovely thing, that you can support an independent bookstore this way.
Sally: Yes, totally. So this next one is really short, subject line 'Nature apps'. "Re: identifying trees and plants, I wanted to share that the iNaturalist app is really easy to use and free." Actually, I don't remember what this is in reference to, probably our ways of coping?
Rachel: Or maybe early on, our fall talk? We did a lot of nature stuff early on, so there's a lot of possibilities here.
Sally: Yeah, there's a lot of possibilities. And I want to say, I actually do have this app and it's awesome. I have a couple apps like this where you can take pictures of plants and flowers and it'll tell you what it actually is, which I remember a few years ago tweeting something like 'Shazam but for flowers' or 'Shazam but for birds' or something. And this actually is that.
Rachel: Yeah, I've tried finding the Shazam for birds and have not had a ton of luck to be honest, but I also am a big fan of the New York City guide to trees. It's a book you can take with you to the park and it works, you can identify trees this way. But an app is also a nice way to go.
Sally: Yeah. A book is the paper version of an app and paper apps are great, I think.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: So great rec, thank you for that. And then the next one is another rec.
Rachel: Yep. We've got a candle rec. "Hi. I love the pod. Was excited to hear you mention candles on the last episode because they make me feel cozy too. I recommend the brand P.F. Candle for yummy-smelling candles that are decently priced, $20 to $40 for most, made from soy wax, and it's a small woman-owned business." And then they shared the link which we can link to in our show notes.
Sally: Yes, we will include all of these links in the show notes. Rachel, are you familiar with P.F. Candle Company?
Rachel: I don't own any. I think I've seen them before, the jar looks very familiar, but I've never purchased one before, but this is a great rec. I'll have to check them out more carefully next time.
Sally: Yeah. This is a great rec. I am always wary of scented candles without someone telling me specifically that they've tried them and liked them because fragrances can really go sideways, I feel like.
Rachel: They can, I agree.
Sally: Okay. So this next one is subject line 'Another idea for coping'. So this is in reference to a few episodes ago, just a bunch of ideas for coping. "Thanks for the great podcast. I have another idea for coping: paint by numbers. It's another great activity to do with your hands. One of my favorite companies that offers these kits is Paint the Town by Numbers." This looks awesome. We'll include a link in the show notes, and this looks like the only possible way that I would be able to, or to be honest, would want to paint.
Rachel: [Laughs] Mm-hmm.
Sally: Yeah. I mean, it's like the grownup version of paint for numbers. There's really pretty, there's one of succulents. There's a Mr. Rogers one, there's an Andy Warhol one, a Frida Kahlo one. Anyway, they look really cool, and I could totally see getting into this.
Rachel: Yeah. It also seems like they are reminiscent of the wine and painting classes that are popular, that this would be a cute thing to send to your friends and do a Zoom or get for you and your partner to do and have wine and recreate that since we're all about just recreating every possible real life experience that we used to have. This actually seems like it would lend itself well to that.
Sally: Oh my God, we're doing that. That's so fun.
Rachel: Okay, I'm going to take the next one. Subject, 'Loved the gifts episode'. "Hi Sally and Rachel. I'm the girl whose husband went out and bought a bunch of apples and we started doing Apple tastings. Was so excited to get a shoutout in the episode. Just wanted to write in and say that I absolutely loved your latest episode. I devoured it and sent it to my fellow gift giving loving friends. I felt like I learned a lot about gift giving, which I was not expecting as I consider myself to be a gift giving pro. I could honestly listen to an entire additional episode about that, so you have at least one vote for it. I was excited to hear the Tony's mentioned. I love giving Tony's Chocolonely bars as supplementary gifts and have gotten a lot of great feedback on that. Last year on Rachel's rec we also gave Mike's Hot Honey to a bunch of people and that went over great. We use it on savory waffles, like cheddar chive, and I haven't seen too many people recommend that as a use for it, so I wanted to pass that along. I'm super excited about Maldon sea salt as a gift. I use that in a lot of my cooking, but never thought about giving it as a gift. The box is so beautiful and lux, so that's just a great recommendation. Anyways, I have two great recs for stocking stuffer grab bag gifts. ReMix Waffle Mix. My husband included this in my stocking this year -- yes, we opened them up early -- and I love it so much. It's a black owned, small business and the waffle mix is just absolutely delicious. Possibly the best mix I've tried. Second, Just Date Syrup. This stuff is just really tasty and a good sub for honey or maple syrup. Love the pod, and I hope you like these recs." This is a great email from top to bottom. I love the waffle mix recommendation, and also if Mike's Hot Honey is good with waffles, that seems like a great pairing of putting these two together or putting them with the syrup. Both of these are great. I love that this person loves gifting so much and is so excited about it and is taking our recs and using them.
Sally: Yeah, I'm pretty excited. I feel like this person is a real kindred spirit, just as into gifts that they are, ReMix Waffle Mix looks amazing. I love that they have already opened their stockings. I am totally here for policies around early gift giving. I'm not as into it when it's like, ah, let's just dig in and open it. But I'm into it when it's like, we have a tradition where every year on December 8th we open one Christmas present, or whatever.
Rachel: Yeah. Why not? It's very cute. I like this a lot.
Sally: Yeah, I like it a lot. I think we should also... look, I'm just going to go out on a limb and say sometime over the next few weeks, write in and tell us the best thing you've given or received this season, and we can talk about that.
Rachel: That would be great.
Sally: I want to hear what everyone's giving and receiving.
Rachel: Yeah. And I think Valentine's Day is right around the corner, sorry to stress everybody out, but everyone's going to need more gift recs. So it's nice to hear little thoughtful things like this that actually make for a really nice gift, because I think stocking stuffers are a great idea for Valentine's Day gifts. That's my little life tip of the day.
Sally: Oh, that's a great idea that I had not thought of. I forget that stocking stuffers is a thing you can search for actually year round.
Rachel: Yeah, they don't actually have to go in a stocking [laughs].
Sally: They actually disintegrate unless they're inside a stocking. Okay, cool. Well, I mean, I think that does it for our mailbag. Please keep writing to us and telling us stuff and asking us stuff and recommending stuff, because I think we both love getting recommendations as much as we love giving them.
Rachel: I would agree with that, yeah.
Sally: So with that, why don't we talk about a nice thing to end on. Rachel, do you want to kick us off?
Rachel: Yeah, I do. So my nice thing to end on is, I'm going to bring it back to the beginning of the episode with the party that we had yesterday for my girlfriend's birthday. I had put up this sparkly background, kind of tinsely, that goes ceiling to floor in gold and silver. I put it up on the doors and the windows, it looked great. And my girlfriend was like, I feel like I'm at a cool holiday party, kind of kitschy. And somehow we landed on an office holiday party and she was like, we should have an office holiday party for our work from home office situation.
Sally: That's so good.
Rachel: So we're going to put them back up next week, we're going to have punch in my punch bowl that's like a very fancy vintage punch bowl. We're going to dress like we're going to an office holiday party. If anyone has ideas for how to really capture the feeling of being at an office holiday party, besides dressing Chuck up like our boss in a reindeer tie, I'd love to hear them. But I think we're going to do that maybe on Tuesday night, and then Wednesday we're going to do our movie night slash every surface a soft surface day, Christmas style. So we're going to put out the air mattress, cover everything with big soft blankets, all the Christmas plaids and watch Christmas movies all day.
Sally: Oh my God. You guys are fucking iconic. I love this. I love the holiday party, and all I want to do now is think about ways that you guys can make your holiday party seem like an office holiday party.
Rachel: Right. I was like, well, we have to do our makeup in a conference room, so that's one thing, but I'm just trying to think of other things that are office holiday party staples without getting too dark or annoying. So if you've got recs, if anyone has recs, hit me up, because we need some more ways to make it feel fun and silly.
Sally: Yeah, totally. That sounds awesome. So Rachel, you might remember that I was recently texting you about typewriters.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Sally: Because I received a letter from a friend and they totally wrote it on a typewriter, which I was super impressed by. And I was like, this is so cool, maybe I want a typewriter because that's sort of, if I see a shiny thing, I want the shiny thing. And so I was telling you that, I assumed that if I went to like Urban Outfitters' website, I would just see some hipster version of a typewriter that I could get for like a hundred bucks.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: That doesn't seem to be the case. It seems like typewriters, you have to spend many hundreds of dollars in getting an actual antique thing from eBay. And I'm not trying to have a new personality which is like, 'person who owns a typewriter'. So I'm not going to do that. However, I happen to stumble upon an app called Hanx, which makes me think of Spanx and thanks and stuff like that.
Rachel: I thought that's where this was going when I saw it in the doc. I was like, if this is shapewear for men, I swear to God, Sally.
Sally: Oh my God, I want it so badly to be that. That would be a dystopic thing to end on, not a nice thing to end on.
Rachel: [Laughs]
Sally: No, this is actually, I feel delighted to explain what this is to you, Rachel. And I purposely didn't put anything into the doc so I could tell you. So Tom Hanks, America's sweetheart--
Rachel: Ah, okay.
Sally: --apparently loves typewriters.
Rachel: I think I've heard this. Yeah.
Sally: Okay. So it was news to me, but this is an app that he has developed, which basically you can use on your iPhone or your iPad, and basically it mimics the look, feel, and sound of typing on a typewriter, from the typing noise to the carriage return. It's free, but I think that if you pay, you can download additional typewriters. I'm sure typewriter enthusiasts among us know that different models make slightly different noises and stuff like that. So I just used it, I wrote a friend a letter and, actually our editor Lucas, I was writing him a letter for a game that we're playing. And it's really easy, you just write in the app and then you can save it and print it out or you can email it. And you know, it looks like a typewriter font.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: It's not as charming as an actual typewriter where the ink is kind of uneven and stuff like that, but it's pretty goddamn charming.
Rachel: That's great.
Sally: Yeah. So, and this is not the result of me going looking for something to fill the typewriter-shaped hole in my heart. This was totally coincidental. So I feel like the universe was really looking out for me, Hanx, get into it's fun and cute.
Rachel: That is cute. You should use that to compose your annual end of year holiday letter to all your friends and family. And by annual, I mean you should do that for the first time this year.
Sally: I was thinking that maybe that is just going to be a tradition that should just be re-co-opted, like, we should just start.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Sally: Reclaim it and make it really cool and fun. Although it's possible that it, can it be cool and fun? Can those letters be cool and fun?
Rachel: I mean, I think those letters get a bad rap.
Sally: You do?
Rachel: I think that, yeah, I don't know. They're fine. I don't know. I've received, well my family has received a couple, I don't know, my ex's parents sent one out that I got a mention in probably one or two times, don't know what happened at the end there, but that's [laughs] who's to say. But yeah, I don't know. I think it's fine. If they're bad, that's also funny.
Sally: That's true, yeah yeah yeah.
Rachel: So I actually would love to receive one that is cringy and embarrassing and comes with a whole backstory and gossip. That sounds wonderful to me. So I think it's nice.
Sally: Yeah, no, it is, it's nice. I think, though, if I did one, it would just be like, follow me on Twitter.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sally: Because I don't know that...
Rachel: [Laughs] Why don't you just send everybody a printout of your twelve favorite tweets of the year?
Sally: See, now that's a great idea,Rachel.
Rachel: Yeah, I'm going to perform a citizen's arrest if you do that [laughs]
Sally: [Laughs] I'm going to print them out and mail them around. That's amazing. All right, well I feel like we've come up with some really good ideas here. I feel like we do have something to take to Shark Tank, which is some app that compiles your best tweets and mails them in printed form, or some new social media channel where you anonymously share your family's annual letter.
Rachel: I love that.
Sally: Yeah. So anyway, keep a lookout for our next starter. All right, well, I think we did it, I think that's the end of the episode.
Rachel: It is. Thanks for listening to this episode of Oh I Like That. Please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.
Sally: And you can follow us on Twitter @ohilikethatpod and you can email us at ohilikethatpod@gmail.com.
Rachel: You can also follow us on Twitter. I'm @the_rewm and Sally is @sallyt.
Sally: Oh I Like That is produced by Rachel and Sally and edited by Lucas. Amber Seger, aka @rocketorca on social media, designed our logo.